New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2

[Snow]

I didn't ask why or how they screwed mechs up, I asked why would they want to risk it again?

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I don't understand why you don't want mechs so bad.

Becuase they're so unrealistic, there's absolutly nothing that a mech could do that couldn't be done better by some other type of vehicle

[WarChimp130]

I think SOE has pretty much just damaged the idea of mech's so badly in their previous incarnation that people don't care what they do with them and that's all their is to it. I know I'm one of them. Maybe it's irrational, but when an expansion comes out that decimates the existing player base like that, nothing any one can say is going to make people feel better about it. People are always going to associate them with the downfall of the first game.

If they want to old player base to come back, the players that made the game what it was in it's prime, then you don't put the thing back in it that drove them off to begin with.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Snow

I didn't ask why or how they screwed mechs up, I asked why would they want to risk it again?

Because its another cool vehicle to show off that will entice people to play the game. Theres no risk at all to it, unless you believe that because this vehicle points to to a mech mesh instead of a tank mesh in its setup file it magically alters the stats to be overpowered.

BFRs were mechs.
BFRs were overpowered and had a buggy implementation.

These two facts have absolutely nothing to do with one another(aside from the buggy animations).

Originally Posted by Redshift

Becuase they're so unrealistic, there's absolutly nothing that a mech could do that couldn't be done better by some other type of vehicle

I could name 100 things in PS that are completely unrealistic that are explained away with technobabble or not explained at all. Having had exactly zero mechs in the world tested by the militaries so far, I at least can suspend disbelief enough to imagine a few reasons it could be useful, and that some of the issues are ironed out or made non issues by the technology.

Were they attempting to implement zeppelins, I'd agree its a bad idea. Those have been proven to be crap weapons platforms. Though I'm pretty sure jeeps have been proven to be bad at taking tank hits..

Originally Posted by WarChimp130

If they want to old player base to come back, the players that made the game what it was in it's prime, then you don't put the thing back in it that drove them off to begin with.

When I hear talk of PS and BFRs, people hate their implementation. Few hate the concept. Some express a preference for the concept of a giant tank over a big robot. Oh, and don't big yourself up. The 'old guard' aren't that special. They were new to the franchise once too. New players can make the game just as special.

[Snow]

Edit: mis-posted (damn tapa-talk!)

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

. Having had exactly zero mechs in the world tested by the militaries so far, I at least can suspend disbelief enough to imagine a few reasons it could be useful, and that some of the issues are ironed out or made non issues by the technology.
.

not entirely true. many militaries have tried using vehicles that move by legs rather then other means. in each case the vehicles movement system was in each case, slower, more complicated more prone to failure and offered nothing as an advantage. in each case a vehicles with tires or tracks was able to transverse the terrian fast simpler and cheaper. the absolute closest we have comes was a dog looking 4 legged unmaned "drone" which would be used to carry gear or transverse mine fields. it however cost a significant amount, had an insanely co,plicated system of movement, and a single bullet could disable the whole thing

another worry is. if you blow a tanks treds out, they can still fire their gun, if a leg is taken out on a mech (or a single hydralic pump or other means of power) it could topple the mech, making it a nice large exspencive pile.

[WarChimp130]

I think they definitely want the old guard back, especially some of those old outfits that moved to greener pastures. They are going to be the ones that really drive the game in the first few weeks and keep the learning curve low for new players. I know I'm far more interested in playing the game knowing certain old school players will be coming back.

And half the reason those old players will come back is nostalgia, and if you include something that reminds them of Planetside at it's worst and not at it's best, then some of them won't come back.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Snow

I guess not but I don't understand why you want mechs so bad.

I could take them or leave them honestly. I just dislike seeing such terrible arguments used for their exclusion (not yours specifically, just in this thread in general)

Originally Posted by Snow

Why would they risk such a major PR crisis?

Keep in mind that while the very vocal minority here has daddy issues with father BFR, the vast majority of people playing PS2 probably won't have a clue what a BFR is. They'll think you're trying to reference Doom's BFG or something.

Originally Posted by Snow

I didn't ask why or how they screwed mechs up, I asked why would they want to risk it again?

You could just as easily ask why they wanted to risk implenting Galaxies, Vanguards or Threshers again. There's nothing that makes mechs any more prone to imbalance than anything else...Especially in such a major redesign.

Originally Posted by Redshift

Becuase they're so unrealistic

I'm going to try and put this to rest here.

Auraxis is not Earth, it's another planet...and it's not just any planet. It's a planet with native trees. Do you have any idea how unlikely it is that any other planet in the universe has trees? The mere existence of trees on another planet is so unfathomably unlikely that fathoming it would send you instantly insane, because the human brain isn't able to calculate such odds. If you knew half as much about how stupidly unrealistic having trees on Auraxis was as you did about the real-world pros and cons of mechs, both Planetside and it's sequel would become immediately unplayable for someone who has any issue with suspension of disbelief.

Now, not only does Auraxis laughably have trees, but do you know how we arrived there? Through a wormhole. That's right, we arrived through a goddamn wormhole. How utterly, stupidly, ridiculously impossible is that? The mere fact that we could in any way set foot on Auraxis requires a baffling amount of suspension of disbelief. We broke fucking physics to set foot on Auraxis...And did I mention there were trees?

Realism in Planetside is dead and gone. So, so gone. Long gone. GONE gone. It doesn't exist. If you can suspend your disbelief to such absurd lengths that you can play a game where humanity broke physics to arrive at a planet with trees (fucking trees!)...then mechs should be a cakewalk.

[Snow]

Because its another cool vehicle to show off that will entice people to play the game.

I don't believe that the inclusion of a mech over a more traditional vehicle would intice enough people to be worth the development time and cost.

BFRs were mechs.
BFRs were overpowered and had a buggy implementation.

These two facts have absolutely nothing to do with one another(aside from the buggy animations).

You're right but you're expecting too much of the PS1 regulars, my old outfit are all playing WoW and other MMOs now. They're aware that PS2 has been announced and they will drop whatever they're doing and play it when it's launched but to them the inclusion of mechs would be a major put off no matter how well someone implemented them.

I'm not stupid, I know mechs could be done but I still don't see how the pros outweigh the cons.

Oh, and don't big yourself up. The 'old guard' aren't that special. They were new to the franchise once too. New players can make the game just as special.

Again you're right but but your overlooking what a massive impact the original playerbase has over the success of sequels. There is no greater power in marketing then a loyal fan who wants to tell everyone who will listen about the game he loves.

[WarChimp130]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Realism in Planetside is dead and gone. So, so gone. Long gone. GONE gone. It doesn't exist. If you can suspend your disbelief to such absurd lengths that you can play a game where humanity broke physics to arrive at a planet with trees (fucking trees!)...then mechs should be a cakewalk.

Don't forget the Bending. One planet became many planets with a single continent on them...but Oshur was GONE!!!!

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Snow

I don't believe that the inclusion of a mech over a more traditional vehicle would intice enough people to be worth the development time and cost.

Yeah, a properly dynamic leg animation, so you don't have to choose between feet clipping and and the mech standing at stupid angles, would take extra time and effort.

Thanks for bringing up a fair counterargument. I can quit the thread now.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Auraxis is not Earth, it's another planet...and it's not just any planet. It's a planet with native trees. Do you have any idea how unlikely it is that any other planet in the universe has trees?

are you serious? are you a crazy religious nutcase? if life exists on other planets you can bet your arse they'll be something akin to trees

tree's evolved from algae which evolved from goo, any planet with photosynthetic plantlife will evolve some form of large organisms . i.e tree's.

[Sovereign]

I would love to go into detail of all the ways mechs/bfrs ruined the first game but I suspect it would provoke a many 'tldr' response..

So to summarize, the bane they created was an atmosphere of mechwarrior whereby players aspired to be super bad ass mech pilots/warriors because of the prevailing "cool factor" and thus decline on other important duties. Planetside =/= Mechwarrior and never should it try to do so again..

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Redshift

tree's evolved from algae which evolved from goo

Originally Posted by Redshift

any planet with photosynthetic plantlife

The unlikelihood of even algae being on other planets aside, I do feel you're somewhat missing the point of my rant. It's like using hitler for a comparison in evilness and replying with "buh, but hitler iz died!?"

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Sovereign

So to summarize, the bane they created was an atmosphere of mechwarrior whereby players aspired to be super bad ass mech pilots/warriors because of the prevailing "cool factor" and thus decline on other important duties. Planetside =/= Mechwarrior and never should it try to do so again..

^This.