TR Max lockdown - Not again! - Page 10

Aractain · 2011-10-07, 07:11 AM

My Wish: Burster becomes a direct fire 20mm cannon, to go with my 4 barreled direct fire 25mm AFV and my single barrel direct fire 30mm cannon turret on my buggy.

Dreamsss.... Dreams can come trrrruuueee.

Traak · 2011-10-07, 07:27 AM

As cheats became more and more universal in the latter days of me playing, or my ping, or bad computer, or whatever, I could dump a fill clip from a Burster into a Reaver and watch it fly away.

This was at distance, however, and on my side it was massive ownage. On the pilot's side, it wasn't, however. What means was used to achieve this, however, I don't know.

Redshift · 2011-10-07, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

I usually begin firing mid lock-down while having over-tracked target to get the largest arc of fire possible on the target route. I'm not getting a kill 100% of the time, far from it, but I deal damage.

You're still missing the point, you have to lock down, that is a disadvantage compaired to the other MAXes which don't, their specials are actually useful they don't need them but if they use them they become more powerful, the TR special is a disadvantage to the burster since it has no choice but to use it since its dps is so bad unlocked.

My problem with the burster isn't the flak, it's the fact we are forced to lock down to work correctly, it's the same problem the other MAXes have you have to be balanced around either locked or unlocked you'll either be gimped in one or uber in the other, currently the devs have gone for the gimped when unlocked option.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-07, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

My problem with the burster isn't the flak, it's the fact we are forced to lock down to work correctly, it's the same problem the other MAXes have you have to be balanced around either locked or unlocked you'll either be gimped in one or uber in the other, currently the devs have gone for the gimped when unlocked option.

You don't know that.

Kalbuth · 2011-10-07, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

You're still missing the point, you have to lock down, that is a disadvantage compaired to the other MAXes which don't, their specials are actually useful they don't need them but if they use them they become more powerful, the TR special is a disadvantage to the burster since it has no choice but to use it since its dps is so bad unlocked.

My problem with the burster isn't the flak, it's the fact we are forced to lock down to work correctly, it's the same problem the other MAXes have you have to be balanced around either locked or unlocked you'll either be gimped in one or uber in the other, currently the devs have gone for the gimped when unlocked option.

Yes, and the other MAX must warn their target and wait before doing damage. If you point out flaws in TR MAX, point out the ones in the other MAXes.
Your lock-down time is the lock + fly time, difference being the ennemy is aware in the latter case.

In case of AA, things are pretty even. Btw, the "flaws" ain't present in NC/VS other MAXes, it's specific to AA. I'm specifically talking about Burster

Redshift · 2011-10-07, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

You don't know that.

i do know that.

TR MAXes have two states locked and unlocked since they're no limit on how long you can be in either you have 2 different dps's.

you can't balance two different dps's (nothing apart from dps changes, it's not like a trade where you may get more RoF and less accuracy, it's a straight up dps increase), you balance one and the other is either gimped or OP'd.

It's a problem that has been around since PS1 was released, it's the reason why the devs put in overdrive, overdrive lets them balance the locked state and tries to offset the gimpyness of the unlocked state.

If there was a system to make the locked state a temporary thing, so it just becomes a short term dps boost it would balanceable. Personally i'd make it instant, ramp the RoF right up and make the CoF (or whatever they use in PS2)bloom insanely so the effective range is 5-10 meters and make it last 4-5 seconds. Then you have an ability which is useful but the unit doesn't need to be balanced around (just like the NC and VS MAXes)

xSlideShow · 2011-10-07, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

i do know that.

So you've played the game? You haven't seen the TR max in action so you don't know if it's unbalanced saying it is gimped in one area just because it has lockdown... Is well... Dumb? All you can say is the idea of lockdown makes you feel uneasy about whether or not the TR max will be good. You don't know if the devs have had the foresight to balance out both modes. Or for all we know the Max might still have overdrive... I don't believe it's been stated that there won't be an overdrive or another special ability.

Redshift · 2011-10-07, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

So you've played the game? You haven't seen the TR max in action so you don't know if it's unbalanced saying it is gimped in one area just because it has lockdown... Is well... Dumb? All you can say is the idea of lockdown makes you feel uneasy about whether or not the TR max will be good. You don't know if the devs have had the foresight to balance out both modes. Or for all we know the Max might still have overdrive... I don't believe it's been stated that there won't be an overdrive or another special ability.

I've been playing since it was release 8 years ago...... i've explained why the current lockdown has been unbalancable.

If they copy and paste the ability from PS1 it still won't be balanceable.

Overdrive+lockdown was a bandaid hopefully they'll just make it work properly this time and they won't need to jury rig it, however that means not just copying PS1's lockdown.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-07, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

I've been playing since it was release 8 years ago...... i've explained why the current lockdown has been unbalancable.

If they copy and paste the ability from PS1 it still won't be balanceable.

Overdrive+lockdown was a bandaid hopefully they'll just make it work properly this time and they won't need to jury rig it, however that means not just copying PS1's lockdown.

I don't see why people think they are going to do this. They've changed a lot of things from PS1 already. They've even gone as far to change things a lot of people didn't see a problem with or were okay with it.

All that has been posted are being saying that it's impossible to balance lock down. Pretty sure it isn't. And if it is it will be removed.

Why would they keep the same lock down system as before when they are changing almost everything? This is not the same game and unless there is a problem with the mechanic itself then the idea should at least be implemented.

Redshift · 2011-10-07, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

This is not the same game and unless there is a problem with the mechanic itself then the idea should at least be implemented.

The mechanic itself is flawed, read one of the many posts in this thread where i've explain why.

kaffis · 2011-10-07, 10:56 AM

The mechanic itself is NOT flawed. Just because you feel (and I'm not taking a position on this either way) the benchmarks they chose to balance locked down and unlocked vs. other empires were not wisely chosen does not make the core concept unbalanceable.

Redshift · 2011-10-07, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by kaffis

The mechanic itself is NOT flawed. Just because you feel (and I'm not taking a position on this either way) the benchmarks they chose to balance locked down and unlocked vs. other empires were not wisely chosen does not make the core concept unbalanceable.

ofc it's flawed, you have a weapon with two dps modes and no limitations on their use, imagine the MCG did double damage if you wern't moving, you have to pick one of the modes to balance the way it was in PS1

xSlideShow · 2011-10-07, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

ofc it's flawed, you have a weapon with two dps modes and no limitations on their use, imagine the MCG did double damage if you wern't moving, you have to pick one of the modes to balance the way it was in PS1

It's possible to balance both modes.