Drop pods, and the lack of SOI.

[thegreekboy]

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

I did notice the lack of doors, and the much more open environments. It DOES kind of feel more like a death match arena. I don't mind some of it being like this, but I think TOO open, for base interiors, is going too far the other way.

tbh I think its fine. from what I saw Zurvan Amp Station is a walled courtyard with scattered buildings around a large main building, which features both openness and corridor shoot-y action

[Pancake]

/signed

I don't want each base to be a COD map, where the focus is on killing and not tactically securing the area.

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by thegreekboy

tbh I think its fine. from what I saw Zurvan Amp Station is a walled courtyard with scattered buildings around a large main building, which features both openness and corridor shoot-y action

While, as DarkChiron mentioned, Biodomes are probably more confined, tiered spaces. Tech plants seem to have something of a large interior and a spacious roof top. It wouldn't strike me as surprising to find the bases are each designed to present a different feel in terms of combat.

[infected]

spawning on a squad member should be a rally point function, not a zerg function.

by that here is my example:
well damn they have a max at this gate, we just got wiped out. the rest of you fall back. shall we change approach? okay. call it. player x, start heading to new rally point. let's all spawn on player x next. change up tactics and hit a different objective or from another angle.


by zerg we mean:
battlefield.... omg i died, stay alive another 3 seconds so i can respawn right back in the same spot and kill that guy that got me.

this won't work in ps2 because there are so many players. death needs more of a penalty than a 3 second respawn that puts you back in the exact same location. it would be nothing but a clusterfuck respawn deathmatch (like bf3).

[OnexBigxHebrew]

Originally Posted by Pancake

/signed

I don't want each base to be a COD map, where the focus is on killing and not tactically securing the area.

God forbid there would be emphasis on killing in an FPS.

Lol :P

[DarkChiron]

Originally Posted by infected

spawning on a squad member should be a rally point function, not a zerg function.

by that here is my example:
well damn they have a max at this gate, we just got wiped out. the rest of you fall back. shall we change approach? okay. call it. player x, start heading to new rally point. let's all spawn on player x next. change up tactics and hit a different objective or from another angle.


by zerg we mean:
battlefield.... omg i died, stay alive another 3 seconds so i can respawn right back in the same spot and kill that guy that got me.

this won't work in ps2 because there are so many players. death needs more of a penalty than a 3 second respawn that puts you back in the exact same location. it would be nothing but a clusterfuck respawn deathmatch (like bf3).

I don't think from that video we can even attempt to say that would be the case.

[rreinke]

Instead of squad spawn cooldowns or all of that crap what about an area that extends the whole base that would stop squad spaawning from occuring inside the base so, to squad spwan the squad leader would have to go outside of the base or set down a galaxy to let fellow squadmates to spawn. This would also give the feeling of a front lines, not a cluster of people spawning everywhere.

[infected]

Originally Posted by rreinke

Instead of squad spawn cooldowns or all of that crap what about an area that extends the whole base that would stop squad spaawning from occuring inside the base so, to squad spwan the squad leader would have to go outside of the base or set down a galaxy to let fellow squadmates to spawn. This would also give the feeling of a front lines, not a cluster of people spawning everywhere.

but... the defending team can respawn in the base when they die, so there has to be a balance. its going to be hard to find.

[fod]

this idea of being able to drop right on top of a base is a bad idea imo
they should bring back the SOI system and not let anyone "drop" within it - doing this will also help balance out the squad spawning which i think is way too OP already

Originally Posted by Pancake

/signed

I don't want each base to be a COD map, where the focus is on killing and not tactically securing the area.

this is what i worry about also

[Charred]

Originally Posted by infected

but... the defending team can respawn in the base when they die, so there has to be a balance. its going to be hard to find.

Of course the defenders can spawn in the base... It's supposed to be harder for the attackers than the defenders, you know?

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by infected

spawning on a squad member should be a rally point function, not a zerg function.

by that here is my example:
well damn they have a max at this gate, we just got wiped out. the rest of you fall back. shall we change approach? okay. call it. player x, start heading to new rally point. let's all spawn on player x next. change up tactics and hit a different objective or from another angle.


by zerg we mean:
battlefield.... omg i died, stay alive another 3 seconds so i can respawn right back in the same spot and kill that guy that got me.

this won't work in ps2 because there are so many players. death needs more of a penalty than a 3 second respawn that puts you back in the exact same location. it would be nothing but a clusterfuck respawn deathmatch (like bf3).

30 seconds is more than enough penalty. And a 5 minute one will destroy virtually any use of it at all, including rally point. I've been seeing just how slow PS1 can be, and PS2 looks to be a lot faster. 5 minute cooldown doesn't fit. I can't believe people complain about prone slowing the game, and some of them are the same people who complain about squad spawning being more prominent, wanting it to have huge cooldowns, knowing that the Galaxy walkbacks will cause the game to slow far more than prone would.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

30 seconds is more than enough penalty. And a 5 minute one will destroy virtually any use of it at all, including rally point. I've been seeing just how slow PS1 can be, and PS2 looks to be a lot faster. 5 minute cooldown doesn't fit.

How is 30 seconds a penalty? That's barely enough time to get killed, unless you're getting spawn camped (less likely with unpredictable drop pod locations)

Let's say that the average lifespan is closer to the average lifespan in an arena shooter. In average (not getting spawn camped) gameplay, maybe you tend to last about a minute. That's 4 spawns where you have to pick somewhere other than squad spawning as an option.

Since they have already suggested that squad spawning is not intended to be the primary method of spawning, then I'd say the potential of 1 out of 5 spawns on average being able to be a squad spawn seems pretty fair.

Galaxies can't be useless as spawn points, and reviving has to have value. 5 minutes seems like a pretty good compromise. Organized squads will hold off on squad spawning until all members have their squad spawn up, which will never take more than a few minutes anyways, especially if they are organized enough to all know not to abuse squad spawning with individual drops in the first place. Less organized squads will probably rarely use a mass spawning to rally together in the first place, so it's fine if they just scatter shot in every few minutes.

But all of this is contingent on players being prevented from dropping right into the middle of an enemy facility. If players can just drop on top of any enemy facility like they currently can, then I think an hour timer would be appropriate. Squad spawning would then be only useful for two things:

1) Getting into battle when you first log in (akin to using the HART shuttle in the first Planetside).

2) The occasional (very rare) tactical insertion of a well organized group of players.

Frankly I'd be happy with either longer timers and no SOI or 5 minute timers and a small SOI (or another equally balanced option), but if squad spawning has a 30 second timer than it will always be a viable option to spawn in with and there will be very little reason to make use of Galaxies or medic revives.

So based on their own words, that squad spawning is not meant to be a primary spawn method, 30 second timers is just flat out not going to happen, and personally I think that is for the best.

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by infected

but... the defending team can respawn in the base when they die, so there has to be a balance. its going to be hard to find.

So the defenders home advantage boils down to... an extra spawn point in a death match arena?

That's pretty pitiful.

Originally Posted by MooK

Mostly because #1 is unrealistic, #2 requires teamplay and that's really the point of this game. If I wanted to "solo" I wouldn't play an MMOG, I would play an MOG.

I think this game is too fast in certain ways, like attacking/defending a base. It should take some teamwork, some planning and some coordinated assault.

I think you missed my point. If it's left how it is now, with no SOI, then why would people use a galaxy.

I want to prevent number 1 from happening. It's far, FAR too easy.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

How is 30 seconds a penalty? That's barely enough time to get killed, unless you're getting spawn camped (less likely with unpredictable drop pod locations)

Since they have already suggested that squad spawning is not intended to be the primary method of spawning, then I'd say the potential of 1 out of 5 spawns on average seems pretty fair.

And my entire point has been that it's wrong to be biased against squad spawning being the primary respawn method. Especially since they can't possibly have tested it in a full 2000 player server condition yet. It's bad enough players are automatically biased and preconceived against it without testing, it's all the more bad when the professionals, SOE, are either biased against it themselves, or are caving in to who are.

Frankly I'd be happy with either longer timers and no SOI or 5 minute timers and a small SOI (or another equally balanced option), but if squad spawning has a 30 second timer than it will always be a viable option to spawn in with and there will be very little reason to make use of Galaxies or medic revives.

30 seconds is a long time to be dead in a fast paced game. Revives will still be valuable, and so will Galaxy spawning. Hell, revives are valuable in Battlefield even with 15 second respawns. And walking back from a Galaxy that's been placed 500 meters away is going to drive away players if it's the primary respawn method. There's music to be faced, this game is going to be paced faster, and things like this that would fit more with PS1's pace don't make sense. In fact, the more I play PS1(and I have been playing it more lately with the 30 free days), the more I realize just how slow it can be. And I think too many people are looking at these things with PS1's pace in mind. Soldiers run pretty slow even holstered, for example. But based on the videos, things are going to speed up a lot in PS2, and it just doesn't work to have a 5 minute cooldown on things like this. It just doesn't fit or make sense.
I truly get the feeling that a lot of you don't have experience with playing squad spawning games if you think 30 seconds is not enough time for the squad leader to get killed. If this were PS1, you might be right; but it isn't, and I can tell that players are going to be enabled to play a LOT differently. Aggressive play to blitz and kill squad leaders is going to be possible where it wasn't in PS1. And you guys keep citing problems with drop pods, I've already said, drop pods are the problem, NOT squad spawning.

None of these objections to squad spawning being more prominent are anything but unproven preconceptions until the game is tested properly. Bottom line: SOE, allow this to be fully tested and prove who is right. If you're right, you will be proven right in Beta. And if you're wrong, wouldn't you like to find that out in Beta before players are driven away?

[infected]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

30 seconds is more than enough penalty. And a 5 minute one will destroy virtually any use of it at all, including rally point. I've been seeing just how slow PS1 can be, and PS2 looks to be a lot faster. 5 minute cooldown doesn't fit. I can't believe people complain about prone slowing the game, and some of them are the same people who complain about squad spawning being more prominent, wanting it to have huge cooldowns, knowing that the Galaxy walkbacks will cause the game to slow far more than prone would.

i agree there is no reason prone shouldn't be in this game, but as far as 5 minute drop pod cooldown, you have to realize that that's 10 squadmates respawning, not just 1. if you're a lone wolf and you die a lot, yeah that 5 minutes might seem tough, but then you're playing the game wrong. if it were any lower than 5 minutes then we would basically have no use for vehicles or carefully placed/defended galaxy spawns.

edit:
for reference: if you do not have a medic nearby, or if you tend to die alot... 5 minutes will force you to spawn somewhere other than your squad at about 50% of the time. by the time you die the 2nd time your 5 minutes should be up.

if you die 3 times and that 5 minutes hasn't expired yet... you're doing it wrong. time to rethink your decisions.