What a travisty

[cBselfmonkey]

Originally Posted by ziegler

oh, and on the other side of the live by yourself argument, you can always pack up and move to mother russia, china, cuba, North Korea, or any of the other socialist paradises you dream of making america into....it aint hard moving to those countries....it's leaving that a killer.

Yeah. Because when people say they want some state payed social services in their country they're really talking about turning it into a completely socialist state. Its like when people say they want a society with capitalist systems they really want to turn it into a plutocracy where absolutely everything is run by the rich. Or if someone says they want Christian values in their country they really want to make it into a western Saudi Arabia.

Get a grip man. People seeing benefits in some systems doesn't mean they would want them carried to the most retarded extremes.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by ziegler

And if caught, you'd be arrested for trespassing, squatting and a myriad of other things.

Getting caught and arrested is the least of your concerns. The point is that if you wanted to do it you'd die in about a week, because you've been dependent on society your entire life. Everything you enjoy in life has grown from the work that generations of other people have built for you. You take advantage of it all every day while asking why you should be expected to give anything back. You're on life support and you don't even realize it, and question how it's your responsibility to help keep the machine that gives you life humming.

Also, if you clowns don't make a thread about SCOTUS overturning Montana's anti-Citizens United law then you can all get fucked. If the PPACA is a travesty, and the permanent inclusion of corporate billions into your political process isn't, then you guys truly deserve everything that's coming.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by ziegler

And if caught, you'd be arrested for trespassing, squatting and a myriad of other things. Also...A person doesnt have to do that, I can still purchase private goods from private individuals. But in your version, if I purchase something from some guy in a private transaction between me and him, some guy in washington needs to know about it and charge me for it.

So again, nice try, but no, you cant just unplug from society. 100, 200 years ago, sure. If a person was able to purchase a boat capable of traveling the seas in search of an unchartered island, then they arent too worried about surviving on their own.

But that is besides the whole point of our Constitutional Scholar, Harvard Law professor evidently doesnt even know what a Tax is....after all he repeatedly chastised us unwashed masses for thinking it was a tax. But since the SCOTUS decided it was illegal as a penalty, but legal as a tax...well...how about that...it's a tax afterall, but our esteemed president is either A) too stupid to hve known that....even when pointed out to him or B) an even bigger liar than Bush.

oh, and on the other side of the live by yourself argument, you can always pack up and move to mother russia, china, cuba, North Korea, or any of the other socialist paradises you dream of making america into....it aint hard moving to those countries....it's leaving that a killer.

The paranoid tantrum you throw in this post is delicious. Like a $40 sushi dinner, crafted specifically to my liking not just for its taste, but its aesthetic quality as well.

Thankfully, Warborn already pointed out the obvious bit you missed. So I won't reiterate that. I will instead build on it, by linking HERE a smarmy little breakdown of just how reliant you are on the socialism you hate, you moron. It's in every part of your life. You are alive today only because of that which you seem to hate the most.

North Korea indeed. You don't even know where you live; no sense in suggesting I go someplace else.

Also, the government has been taxing you penalties ever since you've been paying taxes. Do you own an electric car? Have you had a kid? If not, you got taxed more than people who did. Sure, electric cars and kids are both expensive. So's health insurance. Trololololo it's so much fun when school's out for the summer.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by elfailo

lol...looks like the cold war is still happening in some places of the world.

I guess some will always be left behind.

Be careful, there might be soviet spies amongst the socialists!

Wait... aren't we liberals socialists these days by American standards?


That... that means... We could be spies!


EVERYONE COULD BE A COMMIE SPY!?

Especially Malorn, he's trying too hard to be a hardcore capitalist Libertarian. He must really be a closet-soviet anar-neo-liberal-fascist!

[ziegler]

Originally Posted by cBselfmonkey

Get a grip man. People seeing benefits in some systems doesn't mean they would want them carried to the most retarded extremes.

Really....perhaps you should talk to the ones telling us to move off the grid completely because we dont think it is right that the Federal Government gets to set the insurance policies, and then force us to choose between them or be jailed.



That is what this bill boils down to...the DHS will set the minimum, and maximum (see cadilac plans) on what insurers can provide, and then we are required to choose between those, if we dont, we will then be charged a tax, and if you dont pay your taxes, then you are put in jail.

[Figment]

Ziegler, be careful, you might end up being called an idiot for actually believing your own retarded strawman argument.

[ziegler]

Originally Posted by Warborn

Getting caught and arrested is the least of your concerns. The point is that if you wanted to do it you'd die in about a week.

Maybe somebody that hasnt ever seen anything but concrete. You have no clue who I am and what I am or am not capable of. I actually know what I have done and capable of doing again. Actually...thanks for the laugh.


So if you want to bring this back to reality we can, but if you want to insist on hyperbole, well then so can I, see you in the motherland.

Itssheepy: No, tax incentives to do something is not the same as taxing a person for doing nothing. That's simply dishonest spin and really not even worth a response.
Dont like my post, trying picking apart what I said. Rip me apart and tell me how Obama always stated this was a tax.
As to you link...I am not required to purchse electricity, matter of fact, I can sell electricity back for a profit...NOAA, not exactly accurate, I forget, are we freezing to death yet, or burning to death yet...which tack are they on again. Who still watches NBC/ABC/CBS for news? NASA...is Obama ending that as having no purpose? At the appropiate time...Guess he never heard of the International Date line...or the Metric system, or did Americans invent that?.....roads built by private companies on government contracts. Gas..ordered polluted and watered down by the EPA which destroys 2 stroke engines. Federal Reserve...reall? Ever heard of Ron Paul? I know...Federal makes you think it is a part of our government...

If your house was build to minimum code, you should probalby make sure you have home owners insurance and a good fire alarm system at least. Fire and Police are paid for by local taxes, and it isnt hard to google the fine examples of firemen standing outside a house and watching it burn because they didnt pay their tax. Police...you mean stenographers? An honest cop will tell you, and the Supreme court ruled, it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you or your house. They'll be glad to make a report for you though.

DARPA along with colleges started it, and Al Gore of course, but then it went private to the masses. The back bone is public but just try to get access to it without a private provider.

Your little 4chan post ...well...it explains alot about you.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by ziegler

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard...es/2006461.asp

Google....5 seconds.

I'm afraid a six year old study still isn't enough to get us back into the top 10.

My point in my comment is only converting to private schools is not the magic bullet that so many conservatives believe.

Also thanks for telling me about Google! I had no idea it existed.

[ziegler]

Originally Posted by Figment

Ziegler, be careful, you might end up being called an idiot for actually believing your own retarded strawman argument.

Fuck me...you mean somebody on the internets might call me a name........

Originally Posted by Vecha

I'm afraid a six year old study still isn't enough to get us back into the top 10.

My point in my comment is only converting to private schools is not the magic bullet that so many conservatives believe.

Also thanks for telling me about Google! I had no idea it existed.

No problem, but I usually recommend duckduckgo.com instead.

Not saying it is...but it's a start isnt it...what we're doing now sure as hell aint working.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I love you Ziegler. More specifically, I love the fact that you're a cartoon. You're like the living embodiment of everyone hippies say about people who watch nothing but Fox News.

It's like, we all like to think that even the people who watch nothing but that horrid little network are on some level rationally thinking individuals who, when pressed, are capable of articulating themselves. For all that I'm on a totally different political track than Malorn, no one can deny that he can't at least rationalize his points, even if I think he'd dead wrong.

YOU though. Oh my god. you're like distilled nectar of the gods, for anyone who needs a living strawman to point to and say, you see that? That's the problem.

I love that you keep posting, if only because every time you do, you make the position of guys like WildGuns and Malorn look less credible, just through contact.

[ziegler]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

I love you Ziegler. More specifically, I love the fact that you're a cartoon. You're like the living embodiment of everyone hippies say about people who watch nothing but Fox News.

It's like, we all like to think that even the people who watch nothing but that horrid little network are on some level rationally thinking individuals who, when pressed, are capable of articulating themselves. For all that I'm on a totally different political track than Malorn, no one can deny that he can't at least rationalize his points, even if I think he'd dead wrong.

YOU though. Oh my god. you're like distilled nectar of the gods, for anyone who needs a living strawman to point to and say, you see that? That's the problem.

I love that you keep posting, if only because every time you do, you make the position of guys like WildGuns and Malorn look less credible, just through contact.

you should try your sychophantic adoration on somebody that it might actually have an effect on.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by ziegler

you should try your sychophantic adoration on somebody that it might actually have an effect on.

Haha! I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

Please do not take my post as a reverse-psychology attempt to get you to stop posting yourself. Please continue. Tell me again about how our environment agencies aren't actually good for us because they haven't solved climate change yet?

[Neurotoxin]

Start with 21st century industrialization and infrastructure, THEN have a socialist or communist revolution, and it will look completely different (and be more successful) than any previous ones. Marx expected that socialism or communism would happen first in industrialized nations where people have reached class consciousness. Marxian class consciousness has been repressed in the US since the New Deal, so people look at individuals in society as lower / middle / upper class, not workers and owners.

I feel like it really puts things into perspective to look at things in terms of owner / worker relations instead of lower / middle / upper class. A small business owner may not be rich, but they are able to exploit the labor of their workers to make money. Moneybag, who owns the means of production, hires Joe and tells him to make 8 widgets, the first 4 cover his paycheck for the day, the rest go to keeping the lights on and to Moneybag's pockets. Joe doesn't get to have a job unless Moneybag needs him to make more widgets. As the value of widgets rises, Joe's pay rises ever so slightly (if at all) so eventually it only costs the value of 3 widgets to pay Joe's wage, all the while Moneybags is earning more. If Joe should ever rise up and try to get more wages, unionize, etc, he's likely to be out of a job and be replaced by Jim and Jill who are each willing to make 8 widgets a day for the value of 2 widgets a day. Now Joe is out of a job, Jim and Jill are being paid less than Joe was to do the same amount of work, and Moneybag is raking in the dough.

That is just ONE part of how Capitalism works. If we can use a military to have destabilize an area, you can have a thousand Jerrys working for 1/100th of a widget's value. Hell they only need to make 1 per day at that rate.

That's fine until you realize that most of us are Joe, Jim, and Jill, or Jerry. More than 99% of us are Joe, Jim, Jill, or Jerry. Maybe we get paid the value of 4 widgets per 8 widgets we produce, maybe we get 5% of whatever everyone we manage produces, but at the end of the day Moneybags has the final word on whether or not we get paid or even get to have a job. And nobody wants to be without a job, right?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Vecha

I'm afraid a six year old study still isn't enough to get us back into the top 10.

My point in my comment is only converting to private schools is not the magic bullet that so many conservatives believe.

Also thanks for telling me about Google! I had no idea it existed.

I think this bit from that study is more interesting:

When interpreting the results from any of these analyses, it should be borne in mind that private schools constitute a heterogeneous category and may differ from one another as much as they differ from public schools. Public schools also constitute a heterogeneous category. Consequently, an overall comparison of the two types of schools is of modest utility. The more focused comparisons conducted as part of this study may be of greater value. However, interpretations of the results should take into account the variability due to the relatively small sizes of the samples drawn from each category of private school, as well as the possible bias introduced by the differential participation rates across private school categories

There are a number of other caveats. First, the conclusions pertain to national estimates. Results based on a survey of schools in a particular jurisdiction may differ. Second, the data are obtained from an observational study rather than a randomized experiment, so the estimated effects should not be interpreted in terms of causal relationships. In particular, private schools are “schools of choice.” Without further information, such as measures of prior achievement, there is no way to determine how patterns of self-selection may have affected the estimates presented. That is, the estimates of the average difference in school mean scores are confounded with average differences in the student populations, which are not fully captured by the selected student characteristics employed in this analysis.

This is more interesting in that study.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by ziegler

Not saying it is...but it's a start isnt it...what we're doing now sure as hell aint working.

Hmm...not in my opinion it isn't.

Both Private and Public schools are based on 50s ways of teaching.

Those studies on Private school are a great conversation starter, but that is it.

You take all the kids who need public school(as they can't afford it otherwise...and even if you gave them back their taxes that went into it, it wouldn't afford private schools) and place them in private schools and then we look at the scores, I'm betting money we'd similar results.

The way we teach our kids isn't working.

I'm not outright against Private schools, but I'm not for getting rid of Public schools.

We should look at other countries(and I don't mean turn us into Socialist Europe), Look at how they teach, the hours they teach, etc etc.

I personally feel we should have more exploratory programs rather than, Student sit in desk. Teacher teach to student. Student learn.

And...I think I derailed this topic...