What a travisty - Page 11

ziegler · 2012-07-02, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Vecha

Hmm...not in my opinion it isn't.

Both Private and Public schools are based on 50s ways of teaching.

Those studies on Private school are a great conversation starter, but that is it.

We should look at other countries(and I don't mean turn us into Socialist Europe), Look at how they teach, the hours they teach, etc etc.

Oh, I am down with longer school days, longer school years, and teaching american kids two languages or more from kindergarten, heck, that's the least we could do since we already do that for illegals kids.

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Haha! I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

.............................

ziegler · 2012-07-02, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Longer school days. Sounds like you put a lot of thought into it.

I know my kids go alot shorter days then when I went. And since the education has dropped severely over the last 30 years, along with decreasing the amount of hours and days of instruction...yeah...guess I am stupid for thinking that could be a contributing factor. You act like that is the only thing I said or construed it to be the only thing I think that matters....yeah..ok...

Figment · 2012-07-02, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

I was under the impression that American kids already had much longer days and years than European. I typically had 36 class hours per week, 40 weeks per year.

http://projects.registerguard.com/we...ments.html.csp

Apparently a schoolyear in the US requires between 810 and 990 hours.

We have 1040 obligated school hours a year in the Netherlands for high school. Note though that we have different levels of high school, so it's not completely equal weight as the curriculum between these schooltypes varies in weight. What the higher grade education (atheneum/gymnasium) level does in three years (out of six), others do in 4 to 6 years.

From some classmates of mine who did their last year in the US on two separate schools, the curriculum for the exam class was said to be comparible to HAVO-level or third year Atheneum/Gymnasium in the Netherlands. They got pretty bored.

Figment · 2012-07-02, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

That's pretty pathetic then. VWO was DNAW already...

Too much width in the courses to be honest. I mean, I had 17 exam courses, Belgians 8 or 9.

Vecha · 2012-07-02, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

I was under the impression that American kids already had much longer days and years than European. I typically had 36 class hours per week, 40 weeks per year.

It depends.

Every state in the USA does something different(well many do.)

Most Euro nations begin aug/sep and end near July.

Many in US begin aug/sep and end in June.

Again...it varies alot between states in the US.

However, just increasing the school day/year isn't going to help. I mentioned it along with other ideas.

Curriculum would be the top of the list, but not the be-all-end-all solution.

ziegler · 2012-07-03, 08:31 AM

Rote works for getting the basics down.
Vocabulary, aritmetics as in multiplication tables, learning the periodic tables and so forth. For higher education it needs to be expanded upon, but for elementary school...rote. Another problem with the schools is lack of fear. Kids dont fear their teachers or their parents. The State protects them. The State is more concerned about using the kids as a way to get more funding, and gather information about the household than they are teaching 2x2.

Figment · 2012-07-03, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Are you saying they don't teach arithmetic in primary education in the US anymore?

I think he's saying the state is using children as human shields.

I deduce he actually lives in Syria.

Vecha · 2012-07-03, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ziegler

Rote works for getting the basics down.
Vocabulary, aritmetics as in multiplication tables, learning the periodic tables and so forth. For higher education it needs to be expanded upon, but for elementary school...rote. Another problem with the schools is lack of fear. Kids dont fear their teachers or their parents. The State protects them. The State is more concerned about using the kids as a way to get more funding, and gather information about the household than they are teaching 2x2.

It would of helped me.

I am HORRIBLE in math.

From what I've heard...many middle school/high school teachers don't teach long division because they...don't know how to do it.

"Grab a calculator billy!"

ziegler · 2012-07-03, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

lol. How the fuck can you NOT know how to do a division without a calculator? There's a 5-page article about it on Wikipedia. If you're a teacher and you don't know how to do this, look it up yourself.

Maybe the problem is that your teachers are dumb slobs that simply don't care about the future of those kids.

And let's see....between my kids, I have had them in 5 different school systems in 3 states and yeah....the teachers sucked. none of them required the kids to learn their multiplication tables. I did mind you, but the school/teachers? ....yeah right. Same with long division.
Vocabulary? ....*chuckles* My two oldest have both had their teachers ask me where they learned to speak like they do. Me. I give them word lists. I drill them on your, you're, there, their, they're, hear, here...Their penmenship sucks balls though...I cant help that, mine does too.

If you knew a little about the things they do to kids, such as asking them a set of questions in kindergarten that seem innocent enough but are to determine of the parents drink/do drugs/smoke/fight et. al. They report anything they can find out to authorities to investigate. Which does a considerable amount of damage to the school/parent relationship. You cant send a tylenol to school with your kid, but they'll take your daughter to get an abortion without your consent or even knowledge.

And our test scores reflect how good the plan is working.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-07-03, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ziegler

...but they'll take your daughter to get an abortion without your consent or even knowledge.

Wow, my experience with school was way different than yours. My class never got to go to the abortionist.

Sirisian · 2012-07-03, 02:59 PM

Interesting. I read a few articles that indicated Romney didn't have a plan for Healthcare, but I didn't know it was that bad. I'm getting a feeling he actually supported the change, but can't say it because of party politics.

I think it goes to show how complicated this issue really is when the whole GOP can't create and propose a plan for fixing the situation.

Seems to be a libertarian type philosophy of state control for healthcare.

Romney says he would take the federal government out of the equation, and leave it up to the states to figure out how to make health care more affordable.

Still finding it increasingly odd that each state needs a separate system. People are people, no matter where they live. Seems like most conservatives would hate the waste created by having 50 separate systems in place instead of one. This is going to get complex if the GOP has their way in the future.

ziegler · 2012-07-03, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Wow, my experience with school was way different than yours. My class never got to go to the abortionist.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2...hool-abortion/

Sirisian: Most federal programs....are ran by the states. Matter of fact...the one that so many like to bring up about the health care law....car insurance....you guessed it...state regulated. Not federal.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This means...if it isnt specifically outlined in the Constitution as being under the Federal Government, then it is up to the states to take care of it on their own, or the individual.

This is actually better, because it means those bad insurance companies have to bribe the politicians in 50 states instead of just the Congress in Washington D.C.

Also...what a New Yorker wants...is not anywhere near what someone from Tennessee wants which is no where near what someone from California wants. The purpose of the Federal government was never meant to be a central government, because history repeatedly shows us that a central government becomes corrupt and oppresses it's people, not a matter of it, just when.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-07-03, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by ziegler

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2...hool-abortion/

Ah, so the girl wanted to abort the pregnancy, which is legal, and the health professional who has a signed release by the mother of the girl provided what was (and is) perfectly legal medical advice, and the girl of her own volition went to a medical professional and had an abortion.

I like how it makes a point of stating what the mother assumed the form was for, as if her assumptions meant dick in a legal sense.

Sounds like in Washington state doctor-patient confidentiality extends to minors. No laws broken. Nice to see the system is working; that is, if you have any respect for state's rights.

Sirisian · 2012-07-03, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by ziegler

This is actually better, because it means those bad insurance companies have to bribe the politicians in 50 states instead of just the Congress in Washington D.C.

Requiring more transparency and better online integration for information is the solution for this. Separating it out at the state level so people have to bribe more people is a really poor solution and pessimistic attitude toward the situation. The other problem is localized corruption is harder to track. Less eyes are watching for it, and the media tends to not address it. I personally believe in high accountability and and oversight for easy whistleblowing within the system. Having centralized systems are very nice for that if designed correctly. (That's a big if).

Originally Posted by ziegler

Also...what a New Yorker wants...is not anywhere near what someone from Tennessee wants which is no where near what someone from California wants. The purpose of the Federal government was never meant to be a central government, because history repeatedly shows us that a central government becomes corrupt and oppresses it's people, not a matter of it, just when.

What one New Yorker wants isn't what another one wants. Designing a flexible location independent system seems better. One of the reasons I've always been for a national single payer system. It works well for everyone if designed correctly. Then again I tend to be overly optimistic about the government's ability to implement things. On the other hand believing that a central government is less corrupt than centralized government seems naive. It just creates localized damage that's less accountable.

I do understand the concept though that a decentralized solution can promote localized oversight and checks. One might want to take a middle ground and go with a government funded pool that distributes to the state level for administration. You'd kind of require it for a proper healthcare system anyway.

Vecha · 2012-07-03, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Maybe the problem is that your teachers are dumb slobs that simply don't care about the future of those kids.

Getting "better" teachers wouldn't fix the issue.

It is an assortment of issues colliding at once.

Classroom Sizes. Curriculum. Focus on Test Scores. Slacking Teachers. Uncaring parents unlike Ziegler. and much, much more.

Getting rid of Tenure, firing teachers will only help so much.