So is the Prowler going to suck like it did in PS1? - Page 11

noxious · 2012-03-17, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Also as numbers increase it is alpha-strike, not dps, that matters.

Case in point, in EVE Goonswarm changed their standard fleet ship to the Malestrom and rigged it for maximum alpha strike damage and passive tanking. In a large enough number, those Maelstroms could one-shot a ship and greatly increase the efficiency of a fleet battle.

And for context, the Maelstrom's design is effectively that of the Vanguard - high damage, low rate of fire and overall low dps. But when you have a lot of them all firing at the same target, rate of fire becomes irrelevant because it only takes one volley to destroy a ship. They'd call targets, and each person fired one volley, then moved to the next target. They knew by sheer numbers that one volley per person in the fleet was enough to destroy almost any ship.

Same is true with large tank battles in PS. If a group of vanguards can drop a prowler in one-2 volleys then rate of fire really becomes irrelevant and Alpha Strike vs Effective Hitpoints becomes the factor, both of which are strenghts of the Vanguard in PS1 and PS2.

As the numbers increase dps becomes less relevant as alpha strike becomes king, but accuracy is his queen.

So again, as things scale upwards, it is the Vanguard that gets the most benefit, especially if the prowler has weaker armor. That just means it requires fewer vanguards to achieve the critical mass for 1-shot or 2-shotting tanks.

The EVE comparison doesn't really hold. Alpha fleets were a response to two problems; lag and logistics, neither of which are factors in Planetside. Alpha is necessary not because better DPS is undesirable, but because if you can't kill something with one shot, you're probably not going to out-DPS their logistics. Against a fleet that has no logistics, you're much better off with a high DPS fleet since you can remove enemy ships from the field more rapidly.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-17, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by noxious

Alpha fleets were a response to two problems; lag and logistics, neither of which are factors in Planetside.

It was definitely a response to lag, and highly effective. And it did negate logistics, because you can't rep something that dies in a split second to alpha.

Lag definitely was a factor in PS. How much in PS2 is up for grabs.

As for logistics, it may or may not be a factor, but engineers sitting behind a tank repping it up will certainly have the same effect as logistics.

In any case, a high alpha strike coordinated amongst several tanks will have a huge effect and can negate RoF. If you 2-shot a tank due to alpha strike of having 7-8 tanks coordinating then you cheated RoF. By the time you switch targets and adjust you are ready to fire again. So the RoF loss really doesn't hurt you.

noxious · 2012-03-17, 02:07 AM

Lag was a factor sure, but compared to lag in EVE, well, nothing compares to EVE lag.

Engineers sitting behind their tanks in Battlefield 3 can certainly be annoying and are demonstrative that high alpha, low DPS is situationally useful (just as low alpha, high DPS is useful situationally, I'm not being dismissive here). Realistically, there are far too many unknown variables to say much about how alpha versus DPS will play out in Planetside 2.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-17, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

PRAISE JESUS!!!!

And also Praise Brewko for the answer. Thank you Brewko!

If there's anything else you can divulge about the prowler's intended role that would be awesome. You are one of the few advocates of the Republic, so muscle those guys into talking about more than just the VS and NC.

This is why the panic threads in general need to stop. Too much being made of snippets of info. On top of it, even if they say one thing, they will attempt to tweak things as best they can in Beta.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-17, 02:27 AM

The thread started with a reasonable question. There is no panic here.

Fortress · 2012-03-17, 02:40 AM

You were fine, your thread just got Enclave'd is all.

That one noob · 2012-03-17, 04:17 AM

http://www.planetside-universe.com/m...hp?img_id=1818
I guess the Prowler is more of flat box with 2 cannons and a machine gun on top now, rather than a freaking Macintosh. I can definitely say for a fact that they look much smaller than before. As regards to it's performance and specs... we just have to take the devs words for it and wait for beta to make proper conclusions.

Skitrel · 2012-03-17, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Fortress

You were fine, your thread just got Enclave'd is all.

You have no idea why what you just said is absolutely hilarious.

Figment · 2012-03-17, 05:32 AM

@ Malorn:
KV-2 152 gameplay - -> high damage (can instagib low and mid tier tanks), slow rof, high armour, Slow moving.

PzIV gameplay - -> low damage (needs three or more shots usualy), fast rof, medium armour, mediocre speed

Completely different gameplay, both can "pwn" if used correctly. In a short range slugfest, it depends primarily on whether the PzIV was able to avoid the turret of the KV-2 looking at it or triggering a first shot that misses on the KV-2. If KV-2 gets flanked, three to four good shots should finish it, which can be delivered within the reload time of the KV-2 and by circling it or waiting for it to be distracted (popping out etc).

Ofcourse gameplay in PS2 will be more dynamic and faster and both rof and TTK will be closer to one another. So I'd say it's better to compare the Vanguard to a Tiger II, the Prowler to a slightly lighter armoured Patton and the Magrider to a highly mobile TD.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-18, 01:28 AM

This thread is now known as "The Prowler Thread."

Looks as though the original question I sought to answer has been answered by Brewko:
https://twitter.com/#!/BrewkoPS/stat...61470930190336

@CDLHamma I don't think there's much that I can add to the Prowler thread that hasn't already been said, other than it's gonna Kick Ass!