AGN: Community Clash Recording TXR and MERC vs NNG and TGWW - Page 11

Jax Blake · 2013-09-28, 01:49 AM

Uh wow are we really going into stealing TS conversations now, brings back my old eve online days, if the planetside 2 metagame is evolving into that then I can't effin wait because that's when things get interesting. If I had to guess that came from a disgruntled former merc who is a disgruntled former trg member, who is so bad at this game and so unwelcome in almost every TR outfit on the server worth a damn that he's resorting to this in order to feel good.

You can ask any MERC and they will tell you that you beat us, there is not a single person who is saying otherwise, the post that dreadnaught made actually cleared up a few things and reinforced some issues that I had and still have but not with your outfit.

My anger with this whole situation and my absolute disgust as shown in that sound clip has nothing to do with my outfit or yours (at this point in time) but with the producers of this event because for me they absolutely failed and have yet to directly address the issue at hand. As far as the flying stuff I don't fly and when flying is involved for MERCs then Snafu is the guy to talk to.

In the future if anyone wants to hear something from a MERC just come out and ask and we can talk, no need to steal and leak conversations, that's some punk bitch shit right there.

Coltorl · 2013-09-28, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Naterian

Please, rally up Connery's finest so we can get Mattherson's finest and absolutely steamroll over you fools and shut you up for good.

PFFFTTT I'm ready for some competition, LETS GO.

P.S. Jax reminds me of myself lololol

Hey Noxous you there? Looks like he wants a challenge.

Snoggy · 2013-09-28, 02:14 AM

This is why I don't like these competitive events in closed arenas =P

What amuses me about all this is how poorly it reflects reality on the live servers... in that... for a first in PS2 history, air trumps all

I am just sad I didn't get a decent lib v lib fight. Soon as you step out of the warpgate there's six scythes shooting at you from max range. Not terribly interesting.

TorinPS · 2013-09-28, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Changes

A simple question needs to be answered. Did you bring in people who are not in your outfit "full time"?

According to CC ruleset:
Player Makeup:
1) All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event.
2) Substitutes for your team can be made at the halftime/intermission

http://www.planetside-universe.com/p...-rules-135.htm

If you brought in anyone who was not in your outfit, you clearly broke this rule, whether your outfit runs with them "all the time" or not.

Dreadnaut (lead of TGWW) has instructed everyone to pull out of this mess of drama that has developed. I'll reply to you, in a semi-official capacity.

RCCC posted new new rules for the Nexus 47v47 on 9/23/2013 (announced via twitter: ) and then posted a thread about it on Reddit later that day. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...ated_feedback/)

I, being someone that is an 'official' member of TGWW, but also someone who plays many factions on many servers, quickly replied to the thread attempting to clarify this very same rule. I asked quite plainly:

"All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event." What does this even mean? I play characters on 4 different servers, across all 3 factions. I think I have 8 characters in total. Does that mean I would not qualify as a legitimate participant if one of my Outfits is participating?

...to which I was given the by Torkz of:

"This rule was intended to stop outfits from pulling a number of "ringers" from whatever outfit to participate even if they don't normally play together. ( I know its an honor rule and cant really be enforced )"

(quote here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...y6me?context=3)

So, at this point, I consider myself being in the clear, for sure. Before getting to my next point, a little history:

A group of pilots on Mattherson who are self styled the 'elite' of Mattherson, all started out in different factions. Rudelord, myself, Thundahawk, Krunk on NC, Naterian, Corewin, Harvester, Arcfault on TR and Dreadnaut, Soquez, Aarth, Larx, Plasmaszap, Selentic, Friednug, DeimosRising on VS. (these are the pilots we fielded for the event)

At first, we all played against each other. Corewin, Naterian, Arcfault as member of TE, Rudelord and Thundahawk soloing, me playing with CML and Krunk playing with CIR. Harvester has been one of the notable great pilots in BWC, one of the few. Dreadnaut and Soquez were a member of a larger [zergfit] outfit by the name of AT, and fell out, creating TGWW with Retrogreq. Plasma and Larx joined later. Friednug is and has always been with NNG, selentic used to be and is TGWW now. DeimosRising and Aarth used to members of Vanu Rangers. (VR)

We all played against each other in our various groups, practically all of us at the time being single faction players. Over time, through killing and being killed by each other, we start playing with each other. TGWW was building up, but had not recruited most of their current ESF talent. QRY formed when Naterian, Corewin and Arcfault more or less stopped playing with TR and started playing NC, mainly to prove a point about the Reaver. (which everyone bitched about as being the worst ESF) QRY grew into the first real major air threat on the server, that when they came around, you were going to die. Pilots still dedicated to TR began to form a similar air wing called Notorious.

For a time, it was these 3 main groups that fought against each other, with other outfits fielding 1-3 competent pilots at most, usually. After months of fighting each other, we all started growing closer and closer. QRY would fly with TGWW on VS, TGWW would fly with QRY on NC. Some of Notorious would fly with both, etc. etc. Over time, and as mentions of MLG started ramping up, people started to consolidate their alts more and more. Thundahawk, Rudelord, Harvester had alts invited into TGWW. Myself, Dreadnaut, Selentic, Krunk, etc. got invited into QRY. We were slowly forming each other's outfits, to the point that when any number of ~20-30 of us would log in, we would bunch up together. Sometimes that got boring, and some of us would switch factions to fight the others. Sometimes we just pubstomped all day long.

Every single person we've had in the TGWW air squad on Friday, is or was a current member of TGWW or NNG. (at the time they joined, a number of the current TGWW roster fielded were members of NNG, so some of the VS alts like Corewin's alt NegativeAce)

Two people, members of NNG at the time, Selentic and Nobomba (Krunk, from the RCCC) started a recruiting effort for MLG, or whatever competitive scene might develop. Since we all already played with each other, they started to scout things out, trying to get commitments from people that we played with all the time, that if MLG or whatever started up, they'd be 'with us'. We got pledges from all these people. This was a good 3-4 months ago.

Not long after, Selentic and Nobomba left NNG and joined TGWW permanently, and kep these ties alive. We still kept playing with all the same people, be it on VS, NC or TR. We were 90% all a member of each other's outfits on our alts, and kept challenging each other and growing.

So RCCC starts up, and NNG field a squad for a 24v24, with I think 1 lib. After that, Liberators were banned from RCCC. We stayed on top of it, but it was a 12v12 thing for a while, so we knew we had no place. We were getting to the point of organizing all our people to start scrimming with outfits like NUC for MLG practice. Then the Battle Island was made available to NUC (and others) for testing. We started to get excited.

Almost immediately, when word got out that RCCC would be able to run platoon vs platoon matches, Dreadnaut put our name into the hat. This is when shit started to ramp up fast for our group. We touched base with all of our people, so who were not even actively playing PS2, but still interested in the competitive side if it ever happened.

Then rules were announced. I asked for my clarification, and got it. The spirit of the rule was defined as playing with people you normally played with. Well, perfect, that's exactly what we had.

But knowing full well not everyone would see the reddit thread, we, for good measure, added the handful of VS alts (Thundahawk, Harvester, Rudelord, Naterian) that had no outfit (just flew with us outfitless) into TGWW, as to cross a minor technicality off of the list, just in case people asked questions.

Then we went to the competition as we've been planning to do, together, for a great many months. Our chemistry still worked just as well as it had before Rudelord/Corewin/Thundahawk/Naterian took a break from PS2, and it all came together for us.

So yes, everyone was a member of either NNG or TGWW. 4 of them were invited the day before, or day before that, of the event. These people, have previously been members of either TGWW or NNG, but for purposes of recruiting and maintaining a good PSU Outfit Leaderboard score, were removed from the outfit temporarily. (since the VS alts were low BR)

From a technical perspective, we simply reformed the outfit relationship for people who were kicked to keep a high outfit rank for TGWW.

From a non-technical perspective, everyone of thee people (and more) are members of a group of Mattherson pilots, who are, basically among the best people in the air. Which isn't to say every single one of them (some only play one faction really, Roz, Skifton, Rahsun, etc.) and are not part of this larger multi-faction, always-play-together air group.

So:

a) we followed the letter of the rule by making sure they were a member of the oufit, of which they were previously, and temp kicked for recruiting reasons
b) we followed the spirit of the rule by ensuring the people we fielded were people we played with normally, which was the clarification provided to us by Torkz on reddit. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...y6me?context=3)

We felt then, and still feel now, that we've done nothing wrong. We clarified the rule with RCCC, we were in line with it both technically and spiritually. We violated no rules. We brought nobody in that was a member of another outfit. Not a single person left one outfit, to join us for this event.

Going forward, we'll likely keep (unless Dreadnaut goes back to kicking low BR people out to maintain a high outfit rank) everyone in the Outfit, to avoid future drama.

So no, we did not bring in people who were members of other outfits, not full time members of TGWW or NNG.

I can probably list off names of ~10 very good pilots on Mattherson that we don't normally fly with, that don't play VS, that would have absolutely been 'ringers' in the technical sense. We didn't think for a second about doing that, because we wanted guys we've flown with and against for 8 months, guys we know how to play with, etc. We had plenty of great pilots ready to go, and that's what we brought.

Sorry for the history of Mattherson air, but I felt it was a necessary clarification leading up to the point I was going to eventually make. And with any luck, this will quell future drama that may spring up if you see something along the likes of BAX+QRY appearing on the RCCC lineup. (which a lot of the guys really want to do, because the Reaver owns)

Phrygen · 2013-09-28, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Changes

Leader from TXR here.

We had a killer time in our Community Clash battle against NNG and TGWW. We were amazed by the skill shown by the enemy air squads that clearly was pivotal in the Vanu win.

We originally agreed to play this clean, plain and simple. We even mentioned how we would not do things like stream sniping. We all agreed in a TeamSpeak channel to play it clean. Here is our perspective about the controversies that followed our match:

--------------------------------------------------

Let's start out with the real story about the spawn beacons rule change:

When we originally met we agreed to additional rules:
1. Spawn Beacons WILL be allowed
2. Warp Gate swap at halftime
3. If Sudden Death: Pistols and Knives only in addition to sudden death rules

(originally posted on http://planetside.cc/forum/competiti...48-new-ruleset on 09-23-2013, 05:23 PM)

At our first meeting we agreed that we would have 10 people from each side granted BR 10 by a developer so we could cert into spawn beacons.

We were notified on Sept. 24th 11:48am by @ps2commclash the following: "FYI, I talked to Maggie today and the br leveling for squad beacon is a no go this week. Sorry guys" I responded by saying "Shit Ok. We will do the Old fashion way then." I clearly stated we would be responsible for leveling ourselves up to BR 10 "the old fashion way" on test server in order to procure our own ability to cert into spawn beacons.

TXR and MERCs did not find out about the no spawn beacons until 45min before the match when I happen to stumble upon a comment in the Community Clash Reddit thread. At our pre-op meeting we asked if NNG and TGWW would still honor the spawn beacon agreement. Dreadnaut and Jaamaw both were quick to deny us. We now can clearly see why after their show of force in the air. Without spawn beacons we would be forced to only be able to spawn from deployed Sunderers, which with air domination could be quickly disposed of.

--------------------------------------------------

Shortly afterwards I heard rumors of "ringer" pilots that TGWW brought into. That being said, here we go:

A simple question needs to be answered. Did you bring in people who are not in your outfit "full time"?

According to CC ruleset:
Player Makeup:
1) All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event.
2) Substitutes for your team can be made at the halftime/intermission

http://www.planetside-universe.com/p...-rules-135.htm

If you brought in anyone who was not in your outfit, you clearly broke this rule, whether your outfit runs with them "all the time" or not.

We could have done the exact same thing but didn't. We had offers from TRG and NUC and still we held fast to our "let's play this clean" promise. It saddens me that people would feel like they need to resort to things like stream sniping and now padding their teams in order to win an event that is for the community and by the community.

My final thoughts: I can understand why people feel cheated, while some may argue that "no rule was broken" it is clear that the spirit of the rule was trampled upon, and in the future these type of events need to be very clear about the rules and have definite penalties if broken, including bans from future events. Let's grow from this and learn. Play fair or GTFO.

Your definition and their definitions are clearly different, so its an impasse. Arcfault being in TEST for the purposes of being a reddit mod, and QRY on his NC and (formerly?) TE on his TR is a good example. He considers himself a TGWW, at least enough so to fit the rule set. I would assume by that definition you do not. Another example would be dreadnaught kicking the low level alts from TGWW, but still considering those players members (which he discussed in this thread).

Its on the RCCC guys to make the ruling, and they already stated that they cant/wont be doing so. Therefor in reality, the rule in practice is bring whoever you want and hopefully be honorable about it. If they have no intentions of enforcing the rules, well then they aren't really rules. They are suggestions.

Besides, look on the positive side of things. From what i have seen the losers of matches often have a much easier time finding other outfits to scrim with them than the "top tier outfits". No one wants to get stomped in an uneven match. its bad enough dealing with that in internal outfit practice. I've seen things get so one sided that its stops being a learning experience for one side after about 10 minutes.

In the end, this kinda stuff keeps happening over and over with RCCC and reflecting poorly on the event as a whole more than any one outfit. I have yet to see a match where the rule set wasn't a problem, rules weren't changed last minute or someone had an issue. And yes, this is a growing process, but it doesn't help that in most of them, the teams seemed completely lopsided. The only reason I kept watching recently was for the nexus. Its certainly not the lacking camera work or match i know the outcome of before the first half ends. Then these threads start up, and neither side can stay out of the mud. For every well reasoned post from an outfit, the same outfit has a guy flaming and trolling in broken english. Community building

.

Originally Posted by Snoggy

What amuses me about all this is how poorly it reflects reality on the live servers... in that... for a first in PS2 history, air trumps all

Air still dominates the live servers too, assuming the sides are completely even and don't reach a critical mass, but of course that is rarely the case. That said, i was a bit surprised that the TR strikers weren't that effective. Mountainous terrain i guess.

Karzi · 2013-09-28, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Coltorl

Hey Noxous you there? Looks like he wants a challenge.

Really? That kid is the best you bring up? Really?
What sort of noob server is connery.

That kid is the name you bring up to fighter mattherson aces? That dude wouldnt be more than a medium pilot.
Hailstorm 10k kills , 25 % ACC 3.6 vehicle kills . LOL he farms infantry with his nosegun WOW , God tier pilot
The other 6k kills are lolpod kills so GG on his total of 18k kills.
Kid would get roflstomped.

@ Connerys best .
You guys are a bunch of whiner , you got destroyed you will get destroyed in MLG (if you dare to take part.) You called it stacking? I called it builiding a competive game. You feel cheated? We didnt break a rule , we didnt bring it guys from nuc or whatever outfit people think are the best pilots , we dont need to , our community has that pool of players if you dont that , well than you lose it is that simple.
You accuse us of going to hossin for ressource ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
hhahahaha oh man.
We are not a bunch of scrubs like you guys , we dont field masses of jokes in a mossie with tomcats in the air . We bring quality so we dont die as much as you , which ends in that we have more ressources than you , which leads to that you guys run out of ressources and we dont .
If you need to make that story up be my guest , add to the spawn beacon , they imbalance of the map and your inabilty to play good .
I already knew everything else than Mattherson is a joke , and shit like this makes me even more arrogant.

Rolfski · 2013-09-28, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by ArcFault

Mr Rolfski is essentially arguing for a lower skill cap in a competitive(!) mode, in a game with an already, by design, low individual skill cap - the nonsensicality of which is truly mind blowing.

Your failure to comprehend what was said amuses me. I never suggested any lowering of the skill cap. I suggested a better balance of skill vs rewards.

retrogreq · 2013-09-28, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Your failure to comprehend what was said amuses me. I never suggested any lowering of the skill cap. I suggested a better balance of skill vs rewards.

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Needless to say, this skill gap is ever increasing and is starting to become a serious issue for the longevity of this game. The air game is already screwed by this and infantry play is entering the danger zone as well. In the end, nobody wants a ghost town that is completely inaccessible to casuals/newcomers.

Quote from you on reddit. Sounds to me like Arc has the right of it.

The fact that TR leadership is still bitching about "ringers" is blowing my mind. Really guys...its over, Hamma already said we did nothing wrong.

Rolfski · 2013-09-28, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

Quote from you on reddit. Sounds to me like Arc has the right of it.

Nope. Here's the difference: The ever increasing skill cap is only a problem if SOE doesn't provide mechanics for casuals/newcomers to:

Faster overcome this gap (like the highly unpopular killcam)
Balances the rewards of higher skills (like choosing between reverse thrusting and AA rocket pods)

There is nothing wrong with an insanely high skill ceiling in itself. It's a great motivator for players to keep improving, especially in competitive gaming. But when you mix those hardcore uberskilled players on vanilla servers with casuals/newcomers, you've got to come up with mechanics to keep the game fun and rewarding for everyone or otherwise this increasing gap will make the game inaccessible. And my statement on reddit is that this game is in danger of becoming inaccessible. Posts of disillusioned new players like this one you will find daily on reddit.

retrogreq · 2013-09-28, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Nope. Here's the difference: The ever increasing skill cap is only a problem if SOE doesn't provide mechanics for casuals/newcomers to:

Faster overcome this gap (like the highly unpopular killcam)
Balances the rewards of higher skills (like choosing between reverse thrusting and AA rocket pods)

You are delusional.

Rolfski · 2013-09-28, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

You are delusional.

Love your argumentation. Very constructive, really helps this discussion.

PredatorFour · 2013-09-28, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Karzi

That kid is the name you bring up to fighter mattherson aces? That dude wouldnt be more than a medium pilot.
Hailstorm 10k kills , 25 % ACC 3.6 vehicle kills . LOL he farms infantry with his nosegun WOW , God tier pilot
The other 6k kills are lolpod kills so GG on his total of 18k kills.
Kid would get roflstomped.

Gotta love leet kids and their spiel. Bringing stats into it rofl. So f**ing what ?? Look at daddy's stats..... he is the no.1, yet he isn't at the same time.

As for the match i enjoyed watching the air battles, they looked really fun to take part in. Just like in real war aswell, vehicles are so precious. If you use up most of your resources early you a re screwed. People claimed there weren't many strategies with this as it is dominated by air yet the strategies come with resource usage, makes for interesting match ups. I enjoyed watching this match the most for sure.

Rumblepit · 2013-09-28, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

I have heard this accusation 3 times now. This is such bullshit. WE DIDN'T GO GET MORE RESOURCES, WE MANAGED THEM BETTER THAN YOU.

At the start of each round, the ground guys pulled ALL of our air a vehicle, then even MORE ground guys pulled BACKUPS of those vehicles, and parked them in assigned spots in the WG. Our pilots didn't even use ANY of their resources till they died for a 3rd time in each round.

There, the secret is out of the bag. We are better strategists.

There are 2 sides to every story...
source... http://www.pilotsguild.net/home

Moarwin... I was trying to keep up with that PSU comment thread but jeez, these guys are thick headed. All that needed to happen for the roster to be legit was everyone being in the outfit tag TGWW or NNG at the START of the match. Lol. Oh, and nobody has brought up that they subbed in alts that had max resources at the half have they?

Quorum... I heard people talking about it last night could someone link it for me. Have not followed it. Sounds like they are pissed because TGWW got some QRY guys to join them?. . . That stupid! There is a diplomatic side to things too and if TGWW got some great pilots to "join" the outfit last minute well you just got beat on both the diplomatic and strategic front. Step up your game! All if fair in love and war bitches.

Quorum... LOLZ but lets face it we all know that was not the real TGWW that we see every night, that was Mattherson's best. Which just shows how well connected TGWW is to be able to muster all of those aces (tip of the hat to Dread). . . As I have said before the Real TGWW comms are more like hanging out at a coffee house (again with all due respect) not a frat house *cough*QRY*cough*. . .

lolololol01.. About making it public, be very careful, just because of the racism and some other comments. I would make it link only if you do decide to post on youtube and put the link to it on the private forums here on pilotsguild so only we can see it. Our comms were terrible and amazing at the same time though and was laughing whole way through

(also meant I got to play my 2nd comm clash as I was with RGQT last week haha

)

They think the Community Clash is a joke, and they think the rules are a joke.This is who they are. Im done here.

Karzi · 2013-09-28, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Gotta love leet kids and their spiel. Bringing stats into it rofl. So f**ing what ?? Look at daddy's stats..... he is the no.1, yet he isn't at the same time.

As for the match i enjoyed watching the air battles, they looked really fun to take part in. Just like in real war aswell, vehicles are so precious. If you use up most of your resources early you a re screwed. People claimed there weren't many strategies with this as it is dominated by air yet the strategies come with resource usage, makes for interesting match ups. I enjoyed watching this match the most for sure.

Gotta love those kids who cant read stats right .
Stats are not everything but tell you about what sort person he is , Daddy is a farmer , loging bail assault , everybody knows that.

But stats still tell you what a person does while he is playing , he is afk? Is he a lib pilot? Is he a peaseant farmer? You can read that from stats , what you cant read is how he behaves in a fights , true but from the stats i posted i can cleary read that he doesnt kill alot of Planes with his nosegun , he kills a lot of peaseants thats for sure , but that doesnt make you a AA pilot.
Stats are not everything but they still matter , you just need to look for the right ones AKA . Accuarcy , KPH/VKPH and time .

PredatorFour · 2013-09-28, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Karzi

Gotta love those kids who cant read stats right .
Stats are not everything but tell you about what sort person he is , Daddy is a farmer , loging bail assault , everybody knows that.

But stats still tell you what a person does while he is playing , he is afk? Is he a lib pilot? Is he a peaseant farmer? You can read that from stats , what you cant read is how he behaves in a fights , true but from the stats i posted i can cleary read that he doesnt kill alot of Planes with his nosegun , he kills a lot of peaseants thats for sure , but that doesnt make you a AA pilot.
Stats are not everything but they still matter , you just need to look for the right ones AKA . Accuarcy , KPH/VKPH and time .

That's cute.

Playing against good players affects every stat you listed. Also does it list how many killsteals from people that deny the kill?? That's why you have to take them with a pinch of salt.