ESF Air to Air Feedback for Devs - Page 11

snafus · 2013-05-17, 03:14 PM

Truth be told no amount of changes to A2A gameplay will bring back the air battles as they once were. That is all impossible unless they nerf AA. IT is simply to strong and allowing bursters to invisibly fire across multiple hexs and score hits on aircraft makes me sick. Air will die regardless of new weapons or tricked out fuel tanks. One thing has to be nerfed and air can come back and that is AA. You take away the bursters ability to engage beyond infantry render distance and you will have a aviation community again. Leave the sky guard as is or even buff it slightly but you MUST nerf the burster or air will never come back.

snafus · 2013-05-17, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Actually the opposite...
What do you think will happen when there is an area in the game that only one type of Vehicle can reach and it grants access anywhere?

I know where you are heading with this and if one faction doesn't keep A2A ESF up then they will pay with an enemy that can move freely. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion each faction better keep a good airforce up or you will pay.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by snafus

I know where you are heading with this and if one faction doesn't keep A2A ESF up then they will pay with an enemy that can move freely. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion each faction better keep a good airforce up or you will pay.

And what happens when you can't?

Seriously, people whine about population imbalance now, wait until you need a large high skill population pool for a single unit to keep all the rest of your shit from being wrecked!

snafus · 2013-05-17, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

And what happens when you can't?

Seriously, people whine about population imbalance now, wait until you need a large high skill population pool for a single unit to keep all the rest of your shit from being wrecked!

You realize they cannot engage you from our supposed new flight ceiling. Yes they can go anywhere on the map but they must drop altitude to engage ground targets leaving them vulnerable to all your OP AA tools. This would give air the freedom they need to possibly be effective but would not leave you over exposed since rendering has and always will be in favor of ground forces. And currently as long as you can pop lock a continent then if a faction rolls primarily air they will be losing the ground battle with those resources going airborne.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by snafus

You realize they cannot engage you from our supposed new flight ceiling. Yes they can go anywhere on the map but they must drop altitude to engage ground targets leaving them vulnerable to all your OP AA tools. This would give air the freedom they need to possibly be effective but would not leave you over exposed since rendering has and always will be in favor of ground forces.

Ah, but here is where your solo focus on ESFs rears its ugly head!
ESFs might not be able to use this envelop to it's full advantage, since they've already got the maneuverability to use Terrain for the same purpose, but what of GALAXIES?

What happens when Gal Taxi's can just stream Zerg Troops all over the map?

Do you remember how bad AMS Galaxies were in Beta?

maradine · 2013-05-17, 04:35 PM

Then they have to be shot down. And the faction that doesn't do so is at a logistical disadvantage. Imagine that - winning the air war grants you a movement advantage! Shocking!

My god, people don't want negative consequences to anything around here.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Then they have to be shot down. And the faction that doesn't do so is at a logistical disadvantage. Imagine that - winning the air war grants you a movement advantage!

But that's the problem, you ONLY have to win the Air War!
Everything else becomes secondary to ESFs taking down Galaxies, sort of how it was in Beta when Gals could spawn...

Why pull tanks?
They won't do shit when everyone rains in from the Sky...

You create a game where you either Turtle up in a Base or fly, I think we had enough of that at launch myself.

maradine · 2013-05-17, 04:51 PM

Pop quiz. Imagine a world where a fully crewed Galaxy can make it to its drop point with 100% assurance.

Is this world:

a) Fantasy.
b) The current reality.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 04:55 PM

Well B if you can actually fill the Galaxy...

Sunrock · 2013-05-17, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Pop quiz. Imagine a world where a fully crewed Galaxy can make it to its drop point with 100% assurance.

Well our outfit is doing that every day....

maradine · 2013-05-17, 04:59 PM

I'm glad you agree. And therefore, I posit that every Galaxy that wants to get through to a target and get the drop off already is, and therefore, raising the flight ceiling won't get any more of them through. You can't improve 100%.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

I'm glad you agree. And therefore, I posit that every Galaxy that wants to get through to a target and get the drop off already is, and therefore, raising the flight ceiling won't get any more of them through. You can't improve 100%.

Ah, but can they go to and fro from the Warpgate with impunity?

It's one thing for a Gal to get to the point, another entirely for it to make it back.

maradine · 2013-05-17, 05:06 PM

So what if they can or can't? The payload's been delivered, and that's what you fear. The payload.

Whiteagle · 2013-05-17, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

So what if they can or can't? The payload's been delivered, and that's what you fear. The payload.

No, I fear the NEXT payload, the one after that, and the one after THAT...

You starting to see where the issue comes in?

maradine · 2013-05-17, 05:20 PM

Unless your outfit magically mints 11 more members to drop every time you come back to the gate to stage a drop, I call that line of argument utter hogwash.

Completely unnecessary to point out, but for the sake of putting the final nail in the coffin, I also note that there's usually more than one capable Gal pilot on the team.

Again - in plain English - every Galaxy drop that wants to get through today is getting through.