Higby on Magriders - Page 11

MurderBunneh · 2013-02-19, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Don't matter to me, some people never grow up. There's more than a few who post that are disgruntled with me who just can't accept the fact that some players are simply better than them. From the hackusations to the constant /yell spams I get wherever I go, they just feel the need to stalk me on whatever forum I use. There's a reason I've never posted who or where my NC character plays, it's to avoid these people. Forums for games are for players to express their issues with the game/community, so if people want to show themselves to consistently be asshats that's their choice. Some people attempt to keep it constructive and always on point, but every community has their bottom dwellers. It's easier to ignore people on forums, the only ones that get me are the ones who have alts to TK me, though they tend to at least have a sense of humor.

Posts like this one pretty much sum up why people don't like you.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-19, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

The reason why the Prowler was considered a great anti-infantry tank was because the other tank cannons overkill infantry by a lot, so having two weaker shots is simply better. Also the biggest disadvantage of the Prowler for a long time was recoil throwing the second shot off, so shooting at targets that would die from the splash alone was a lot easier with it than shooting at things that require direct hits.

Actually that's something that has had me wondering ever since I first saw the tank gun spreadsheet. According to that the Prowler deals the same amount of indirect damage with each of its rounds as the other's do with their rounds. Before reading that I always thought that the Prowler's splash damage per shot was devided by two, in the same way that its direct damage is devided by two.
Edit: I should probably have put up a link to the spreadsheet, it's pre-patch so it's mostly out of date but they haven't changed the indirect damage yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

Anywho, the dual barrel is indeed the main reason why it's better at killing infantry, which is further improved when using anchor mode. And I agree with your recoil comment, which is also why I would rather have had them try to improve that instead of just upping the damage.

MurderBunneh · 2013-02-19, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

The graphs make sense if you think that VS in most servers is the lowest population. While under the impression that magriders seemed more seen around the clock, what happened is that we actually saw VS zerging more with Magriders the TR with prowler and NC with vanguards.

Since the magrider alone was more powerful, a zerg could actually be unstoppable. NC had to pull a lot more armour to counter the VS most of the time. Considering this (and that NC has the second largest pop in most servers, TR bing first), you can actually extrapolate that the TR and NC were pulling more tanks out on a player basis, but since the magrider could survive MUCH longer, it's KDR was much bigger despite the lower amount of magriders pulled.

Both graphs are excelent and provide a lot of objectivity.

Pretty much sums it up.

Redshift · 2013-02-19, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Yeah I'm pretty shocked. Pre-patch I never saw more Prowlers or Vanguard's than Magriders. Surprising to say the least.

Even so I've never saw more Vanguard's than Magrider's. I was under the assumption pretty much everyone agreed that Magrider's are used far more often than the Prowler or Vanguard. This graph is suggesting they're used the least? w/e, he posted it, guess it must be right.

We'll actually there's no labels anywhere on that graph, it could be "numbers of players not in a tank" :P

Assist · 2013-02-19, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Holy ego batman. All that to say "I'm sorry, I was wrong. I said some nasty things to people, I'm also sorry for that"". When wrong, choose martyrdom!

Oh my ego is huge, you have no idea. I make sure everyone I play with knows I'm the best ever. I'm sure the people I kill from my Liberator can tell you so.

Originally Posted by Bear

I don't want to destroy your impressive ego but prior to this discussion I've never heard of you. To me you're just another purple spandex wearing VS to be shot at.

One fact does remain though! Despite your overwhelming arrogance, despite numerous claims that you were correct in your analysis, despite opinions in opposition to the factual information presented, you remain completely, entirely and unequivocally wrong on virtually every point.

Now you've transitioned from the crusading voice of the VS to being a victim because of your awesomeness? You sir, are a piece of work.

Actually I was referring to the ones who were banned across different forums for their personal attacks on me, I believe one was even banned here at PSU for similar reasons though I don't know why specifically. I wasn't at all referring to you, or even anyone here, as I made it fairly clear in my post I was speaking in general when I said "people" and not "Bear".
I've never positioned myself as a crusader for the VS, I've never spoken for the VS. I don't even lead a squad so why would I speak for an entire faction at all ? My argument has always been from my perspective and usually from a neutral perspective. I really should make more "Nerf XXXXX" threads so people understand that there's a difference in my point of view of balancing and the point of view of SoE.

Since apparently you're keeping track, I was only wrong on one thing. The Magrider wasn't the most spawned, which still surprises me even with the population differences. Other than that I was pretty spot on with my previous arguments, you're welcome to go through them one by one since you seem intent on trashing me. Momentum, damage changes, hill climbing, strafing, I'm pretty sure I was right on all of those. Maybe not though, I guess SoE reverting their position on those points must just be coincidence.
Oh, and I've been playing NC since the patch. I see no advantage to playing VS. So I'd just be another Smurf, if I was on Waterson.

Originally Posted by maradine

I agree. You'd do well to come up for air occasionally.

I hear making negative comments is a great way to avoid drama, right?

Originally Posted by MurderBunneh

Posts like this one pretty much sum up why people don't like you.

Certain individuals don't like me and that's fine, because they don't know me. There's a lot of things I disagree with SoE on, and most are balance related between the factions. I expect some people to cry about my points of view, but don't expect me to just give up because someone stated I was wrong.

I bitched and moaned about the Magrider changes since they happened, first the strafing that was a 'bug'. Then the hill climbing which they decided was 'intended'. Then the acceleration issues on any kind of slope and Magburner failure, which was just acknowledged yesterday. So while some of you may think I'm wrong on my points, I've been right on just about everything other than the population numbers(which seems to me surprised everyone and not just me).

Mordelicius · 2013-02-19, 11:02 PM

Ignore the delusional bias coming from Rothnang. In his mind, his premise is the same as the conclusion which is, the pre-GU2 Magrider is balanced and not overpowered.

The Mags were supposedly balanced as a premise, therefore its mind-boggling K/D ratio can be attributed to fully superior population of Vanu uber-players and while conversely, the NC/TR just happened to be collection of idiots

. And as someone has already pointed out, that would be close to impossible to happen. Then he goes around concluding the Mag were fine. Well, that's also called circular logic.

But alas, Rothnang would rather buy into his own denial and embrace the near-impossible rather accept the rather simple explanation that Magriders were out and out just overpowered.

Rothnang · 2013-02-19, 11:28 PM

I am defeated!!!

Sturmhardt · 2013-02-20, 12:41 AM

Wohoo, assist, you are such a bad guy with ppl following you everywhere...paranoia much?

.sent via phone.

BlaxicanX · 2013-02-20, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I am defeated!!!

That is one... unconventional looking strawman picture.

Pella · 2013-02-20, 04:21 AM

More VS

NC are Next with there Max Nerf.

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

That is one... unconventional looking strawman picture.

I thought he was cute, all derpy looking with his pumpkin eyes.

KaskaMatej · 2013-02-20, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I've added the various graphs to our Twitter Media Library:

MBT's Pulled per Day:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media.php?view=2304

MBT K/D:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media.php?view=2304

Disclaimer: assumptions and theory crafting

Why did they pull more tanks? It might have been because they died more often. Then why have they died so often? Because they pulled more?

Was it because they were fixated on killing infantry instead of fighting tanks? Were the lone drivers trying to fight a fully crewed anti-tank built MBT?

Wouldn't the change of their tank-battling capabilities increase their average life span, decreasing the units spawned? The graph doesn't say so. The amount of Prowlers being pulled compared to Magriders is still higher even with the GU02 buffs.

From the limited data and graphs available to us I can only assume Magriders had such good KDR (twice as high as Prowler) due to VS fully crew their MBT compared to single-driver Prowlers.

Also, now that KDR of all three MBT is much more equal than before, the higher amount of Prowlers fielded means more dead NC/VS tanks.

To give a perspective (very rough estimate):
- 100 Prowlers will kill 110 Vanguards+Magriders (KDR of 1.1)
- 90 Vanguards will kill 80 Prowlers+Magriders (KDR of 0.89)
- 80 Magriders will kill 80 Vanguards+Prowlers (KDR of 1.0)

You can say Prowlers are now the dominant MBT on the plains/canyons of Auraxis. They destroy 30% more tanks overall compared to Vanguard or Magrider, Prowlers now destroy more than 40% of all tanks worldwide.

What do you think of this?

superseohyun · 2013-02-20, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

Disclaimer: assumptions and theory crafting

Why did they pull more tanks? It might have been because they died more often. Then why have they died so often? Because they pulled more?

Was it because they were fixated on killing infantry instead of fighting tanks? Were the lone drivers trying to fight a fully crewed anti-tank built MBT?

Wouldn't the change of their tank-battling capabilities increase their average life span, decreasing the units spawned? The graph doesn't say so. The amount of Prowlers being pulled compared to Magriders is still higher even with the GU02 buffs.

From the limited data and graphs available to us I can only assume Magriders had such good KDR (twice as high as Prowler) due to VS fully crew their MBT compared to single-driver Prowlers.

Also, now that KDR of all three MBT is much more equal than before, the higher amount of Prowlers fielded means more dead NC/VS tanks.

To give a perspective (very rough estimate):
- 100 Prowlers will kill 110 Vanguards+Magriders (KDR of 1.1)
- 90 Vanguards will kill 80 Prowlers+Magriders (KDR of 0.89)
- 80 Magriders will kill 80 Vanguards+Prowlers (KDR of 1.0)

You can say Prowlers are now the dominant MBT on the plains/canyons of Auraxis. They destroy 30% more tanks overall compared to Vanguard or Magrider, Prowlers now destroy more than 40% of all tanks worldwide.

What do you think of this?

Higby confirmed on twitter that TR pull more prowlers because their average life span is the lowest of the 3 MBTs.
And he calls the prowler "glass cannon".

Twido · 2013-02-20, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

What do you think of this?

I think where do you get it that the prowler kills 30% more tanks than the other main battle tanks?

Originally Posted by superseohyun

Higby confirmed on twitter that TR pull more prowlers because their average life span is the lowest of the 3 MBTs.
And he calls the prowler "glass cannon".

The plot thickens... Is it ok for the prowler to have its current damage and therefore not recieve a nerf because it also is easier to kill? I wouldn'[t touch that topic with a flame resistent barge pole at the moment!

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by superseohyun

Higby confirmed on twitter that TR pull more prowlers because their average life span is the lowest of the 3 MBTs.
And he calls the prowler "glass cannon".

He does bring up a good point though, if the Prowler went from having a third as much K/D as the Magrider in Higby's first graph to actually having slightly better K/D than the Magrider how come there isn't any dent in the number of Prowlers pulled?

Shouldn't the number logically have gone down if it loses fewer fights?

I still really hope Higby will show us the Infantry-kill statistics. I think they will add a pretty important piece to the puzzle.