Upcomming Surge Changes!

[KIAsan]

Dang, 11 pages and growing. I have read each argument pro and con (I'm on the pro side), but you know what, your wasting your time, surge is changing. Now, how that really affects the playerbase won't be determined until it goes live. We may end up with yet another "uber lasher" goof up, or this all just may be a lot of hot air. Fact is, there is no facts. I have heard all kinds of stuff bandied about, yet nothing to back it up (other than personal opinion, useless stats). Until we get a read from the devs AFTER it goes live, there is really no way of knowing what this means to live play (hence the play tests). At least we have more warning of this change than we did for "uber lasher" (and more thought put into it).

I would challenge all the nay sayers to start using surge as they are going to change it. In other words, holster weapon, turn it on, move, turn it off, draw weapon. Try to see if that really is going to affect your ability to fight. Seems like most of the arguments I have seen against the change, state they use surge to get within CQB. If that is the case, then the half second it takes to hit your function key, then hit weapon key, is really not going to make that much difference. However, I really think, most use it during a fight, knowing it will warp, thus enabling them to get an easier kill. If so, sorry, but your not going the be the CQB master anymore.

Anyway folks, at least this has generated alot of interesting debate, with very little flames. I think the argument is pretty silly though. If you need help getting to CQB with the enemy, use other MA troops to provide suppressing fire while you close in. The days of the lone wolf HA doing everything are dying. As always, these are my opinions and subject to just as much inaccuracy as everyone elses. But, they are just that, opinions, not facts.

[Lartnev]

I have already given you 3 of my own ideas which are lightyears better than the proposed solution. Bother reading the OF and you will find 10 more

There are 656 posts (at time of posting this) in that thread I don't have the time to read it all. Give us some highlights.

Like I said, remove jumping while surging, drain out stamina if carrying heavy assault..

That's a bad idea anyway because it then means that if you happen to be carrying heavy assault you can't use surge as intended (since Spork said that surgile behaviour was a clever use of available game mechanics... or something), ie covering "long" distance and using it for a quick escape. It still doesn't stop the infiltrator/boomer scenario.

[Queensidecastle]

The "infiltrator boomer" scenario is not a problem to begin with. Complaining about an Infil pulling off some boomers in your spawnroom is akin to complaining they just snuck in and rehacked your base because no one was guarding the CC. Or it is like people that complain that vehicles can run them over. Its pure lazyness. Try flipping on darklight or have someone on patrol. As a former infiltrator I can assure you that getting away with boomering is a hell of a lot harder than you think it is

[Madcow]

Originally Posted by Marsman

And I wouldn't even have a problem with that if they only did it once, but I seen 3,4,5,6+ times in a row as they surge around in a circle so fast no one can catch them even with surge themselves, nor be able to put more than one bullet into them as they whizz by.

This is the funniest argument in the entire thread. So an infiltrator, limited to a total of 5 ACEs in his inventory (assuming he doesn't want to heal himself, or be able to hack his way into the base/spawn room/etc.) has made more than 6 boomer runs in your spawn room? If that's the case, you have a bunch of sorry soldiers. Let's operate under the assumption he had advanced hacking and an REK on him, limiting him to 4 ACEs. Let's say he was pretty good and got into the base without using any of those ACEs on the way (not easy). Let's say he was even better and somehow pulled off 4 boomer runs and was able to survive each time (remember, he can't heal himself). Now let's say he snuck back into your spawn room, hacked an equipment terminal without anybody noticing and got a new ACE loadout. So all the people spawning were too oblivious to see that a bug had revealed the 'invisible' guy who was hacking, and everybody else was too stupid to hear the sound or see the red light. And you're talking about this being a problem? The problem in this scenario isn't the infiltrator, and I'll give you one guess what the actual problem is.

Please play as an infiltrator and realize the limitations before posting about their problems.

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

Are you actually telling me that you dont know that the proposed fix isnt going to stop warping? Do you really not understand that? I mean this is the kind of stuff I am talking about. I keep debating this issue with people who dont even understand the core of the problem.

Is it going to stop warping? No, it isn't. It is going to stop the ABUSE of warping, which is more important. The easy-way, quick fix to warping? Remove Surge entirely. The Devs are striking the middle ground. Now when I see your warping tail, I can toss a jammer and POOF! You stop warping. In CQB currently, that tactic is suicide since you'll have your weapon out and I'll have just thrown a grenade that does no actual damage. Hmmm, someone with a weapon out vs. someone who doesn't have a gun out...wonder who's going to win that fight...hell, the weapon out could be a suppressor and the guy with it out will probably win. At least when you're forced to have your weapons holstered, we're starting from about the same point (a la old west gunfights). Let the better player win.

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

I dont even know how to respond to this one. If you cant keep infiltrators from getting into your spawn room, I dont know what to tell you. This argument is as asinine as the ones where people are out in the open and complain about being run over by a vehicle.

Mmm, no...it really isn't. If you're outside, vehicles are the kings of the battlefield. You're SUPPOSED to lose to them as that is their defined role, to kick your ass if you're dumb enough to be outside. Oddly enough, that's exactly what happens.

Infiltrators, once a base assault has begun in earnest, really have no place on the battlefield. Their role is recon and harassment. They find the weak points for heavier units to exploit and they pick of the stragglers and ones too stupid to use support of their own. Their place is NOT running randomly through a base using boomers to blow up people who can't see them and couldn't track them accurately if they COULD see them. The good bet is that 99% of the people in that spawn room could not catch up to a surging cloaker even if they wanted to. Add in that they can't just fire shotguns off because of the insane number of friendlies and you begin to have a problem. If a cloaker sneaks into a spawn room and finds a way to sabotage all the spawn tubes...good for him. Running in when he knows the likelihood of being hurt almost doesn't exist is abuse.

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

Like I said, remove jumping while surging, drain out stamina if carrying heavy assault..etc but you dont even want to TRY those first. You would rather use the worst available idea for a fix that is a Huge nerf to a huge ammount of people and that Still will not stop the warping

Jumping - Again, ANY incline causes a problem, so this solution has already been identified as marginal. It will stop the obvious abuse, but doesn't fix it for the other 40% of warping abuse, whether intentional or not. Hence, dumb solution and why it's not being used.

Making it affect Heavy Assault only doesn't help. The abusers will simply resort to using Sweepers and other weapons. Doesn't really matter what you use if you can't be hit in return. Again, dumb solution and why it's not being used.

Increasing the stamina drain punishes those who use it as a travel implant, which is evidently (from Sporkfire's post) how Surge was originally envisioned. Many people don't use Surge in combat, but instead use it to get from base to base because they don't have the certs for/want to use a vehicle. Punishing people for using an implant as it's intended to appease those who want to use it to abuse a flaw in the netcode is also a dumb solution, hence why it isn't being used.

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

I have already given you 3 of my own ideas which are lightyears better than the proposed solution. Bother reading the OF and you will find 10 more

Since the 3 you proposed were "lightyears ahead" and yet still failed to address the fundamental issues that the Devs solution DO address (You can't go to a different weapon, it doesn't matter how badly you warp on a jump/incline because you'll be moving normally when you can infict damage, people can still use Surge for travel), you'll forgive me for being skeptical. As has been pointed out there are some 600+ posts on that thread, so give us some highlights. And please, remember there is more than one issue here and try to think of these flaws with your other ideas when examining them.

I respect your passion for something you feel should stay in, but given it's obvious abuse potential, it's something that needs to go. I'm sure the Devs examined all those possibilities and saw the exact same problems I see (and probably many more). Hence, they've gone with the one that is the best compromise of all the factors.

[Madcow]

Originally Posted by Krinsath

Infiltrators, once a base assault has begun in earnest, really have no place on the battlefield. Their role is recon and harassment. They find the weak points for heavier units to exploit and they pick of the stragglers and ones too stupid to use support of their own. Their place is NOT running randomly through a base using boomers to blow up people who can't see them and couldn't track them accurately if they COULD see them. The good bet is that 99% of the people in that spawn room could not catch up to a surging cloaker even if they wanted to. Add in that they can't just fire shotguns off because of the insane number of friendlies and you begin to have a problem. If a cloaker sneaks into a spawn room and finds a way to sabotage all the spawn tubes...good for him. Running in when he knows the likelihood of being hurt almost doesn't exist is abuse.

Again, this coming from somebody who obviously has never actually done spawn room boomer runs in an infiltrator suit. Shocking.
The likelihood of being hurt almost doesn't exist. There is absolutely no point in the game where this is true for an infiltrator. We have no armor. We are killed by friendly fire as often as the enemy. Stray shots not aimed at us kill us all the time. I have been boomered in the spawn room, and I have more often than not killed the person who did it my very next spawn with nothing more than my supressor. The main issue are the idiots you are spawning with. I will always give the VWC as soon as I see the boomer run starting, but rarely will anybody stop long enough to assist with hunting the cloaker down. Most people are too busy getting their gear and running for the zerg to stop and down the invisible guy who is most likely on death's door anyway if he made it that far into the base.
Let me give you a few hints, since this scenario seems so troubling for you. If you get boomered once, at next spawn stay in the tube. Nobody does boomer runs at the tubes, it's suicidal. It's easy to track the path of the cloaker as he drops his next boomer, and fire your supressor at him the whole way. You'll hit him a few times, possibly kill him even if he has surge on. Now, were you paying attention to where he came from? Good, because on his next boomer run that's where he's going. 99% of infiltrators will run from one location to another and then back again. It's an easy pattern. Now you run to that location and wait for him to come surging towards you, while you mow him down. Wasn't that fun?
Now I'll give you even more hints. Even with surge on, the infiltrator is either surging into a corner of the spawn room or just outside one of the 3 doors (assuming it's a base spawn room we're talking about). They don't keep going, if you keep going you attract attention and somebody with DL is going to wipe you out.

Again, I'd ask that people who haven't actually played the infiltrator stop talking about the problems that infiltrators cause them. The fact that people see the infiltrator role a particular way does not mean that's how all infiltrators should play it. The fact that I can successfully use the suit in order to position myself properly for some good killing runs (and at least half of my kills are with the knife), and the fact that I can normally rack up more kills than I can as a standard grunt tells me all I need to know. It's all about finding a way to play which suits your own playstyle. My friend and I go out together as infiltrators and constantly get tells from enemies either complimenting us or telling us how much we piss them off. Either tell is gratefully accepted.

[Electrofreak]

During the AGN shoutcast Sporkfire mentioned that nerfing surge is the only way they can prevent the warping exploit in PlanetSide. It all comes down to the fact that when a character moves quickly, the client must predict their movement until it gets another update from the server. When it gets this update, it updates the character's location to a new position. This is what causes people to warp around. I'm sick of getting killed by people who run towards me, and then suddenly are behind me shooting me in the back. Without surge on, warping is less likely to happen because the client can predict the character's movement more accurately, and when it recieves an update, a large warp is unlikely to occur because the character wasn't moving fast enough to have traveled a large distance between updates.

However, I do think it would be fair to pull a pistol while surging. I figure that surge boosts bloodflow to your legs, making your arms relatively weak. Thus, you would be unable to use any weapon heavier than a pistol. Perhaps also increase the CoF of the pistol during surge, as your weakened arms would have more trouble maintaining a steady aim.

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by Madcow

Again, this coming from somebody who obviously has never actually done spawn room boomer runs in an infiltrator suit. Shocking.

I do have an infiltrator character, thank you very much. Please consider that you are not the end all font of knowledge before posting.

Originally Posted by Madcow

The likelihood of being hurt almost doesn't exist. There is absolutely no point in the game where this is true for an infiltrator. We have no armor. We are killed by friendly fire as often as the enemy. Stray shots not aimed at us kill us all the time. I have been boomered in the spawn room, and I have more often than not killed the person who did it my very next spawn with nothing more than my supressor.

It's remarkable how hard it is to inflict damage on something that is 1) Invisible and 2) warping, especially with Client-Side hit detection when there is no feedback on hits for cloakers.

Originally Posted by Madcow

The main issue are the idiots you are spawning with. I will always give the VWC as soon as I see the boomer run starting, but rarely will anybody stop long enough to assist with hunting the cloaker down. Most people are too busy getting their gear and running for the zerg to stop and down the invisible guy who is most likely on death's door anyway if he made it that far into the base.

Wow, you must be a REALLY bad infiltrator if you can't get close to the spawn room without being hurt. I'm usually at a door lock before someone even suspects I'm there and I've actually watched non-DL equipped soldiers stand right next to me by a generator and not taken damage on the entire way in. Of course, I don't go using surge near the enemy which lights you up like a Roman Candle to any sniper on the walls. Pity the sniper rifle is useless unless you're at point-blank in CQB.

Originally Posted by Madcow

Let me give you a few hints, since this scenario seems so troubling for you. If you get boomered once, at next spawn stay in the tube. Nobody does boomer runs at the tubes, it's suicidal. It's easy to track the path of the cloaker as he drops his next boomer, and fire your supressor at him the whole way. You'll hit him a few times, possibly kill him even if he has surge on. Now, were you paying attention to where he came from? Good, because on his next boomer run that's where he's going. 99% of infiltrators will run from one location to another and then back again. It's an easy pattern. Now you run to that location and wait for him to come surging towards you, while you mow him down. Wasn't that fun?
Now I'll give you even more hints. Even with surge on, the infiltrator is either surging into a corner of the spawn room or just outside one of the 3 doors (assuming it's a base spawn room we're talking about). They don't keep going, if you keep going you attract attention and somebody with DL is going to wipe you out.

The above statements indicate that you have no idea about the tactic which people are complaining about. If an infiltrator sneaks into the spawn room, waits for an opportune moment and then plants a boomer and runs off, more power to him. The complaint is about the surgers who come screaming in off the stairways outside, plant a boomer and run out the other end and down another incline setting off the boomer. The only base where that isn't a viable tactic is the Bio Lab as the 2 approaches to the spawn room are flat. All the other base layouts have inclines directly adjacent to the spawn room, allowing easy warp entrance and exit. THAT is the tactic being complained about.

Originally Posted by Madcow

Again, I'd ask that people who haven't actually played the infiltrator stop talking about the problems that infiltrators cause them. The fact that people see the infiltrator role a particular way does not mean that's how all infiltrators should play it. The fact that I can successfully use the suit in order to position myself properly for some good killing runs (and at least half of my kills are with the knife), and the fact that I can normally rack up more kills than I can as a standard grunt tells me all I need to know. It's all about finding a way to play which suits your own playstyle. My friend and I go out together as infiltrators and constantly get tells from enemies either complimenting us or telling us how much we piss them off. Either tell is gratefully accepted.

The infiltrator role is not a combat role, hence the term "Infiltrator". It is probably the most specialized support class there is. It's far from a useless playstyle, and I have great fun sneaking up on snipers and other people who aren't paying attention and knifing/boomering them to bits. I also get just as frustrated when my own teammates shoot me/run me over/fire blast weapons at the guy I'm next to. That's SOE's fault for not making friendly names show up faster than enemy names. I rack up more kills as a sniper, but that's because it fits my general playstyle. I can still rack up 80 kills a night as an infiltrator, but I do it by just that, infiltrating...not by abusing a flaw in the netcode to the fullest possible advantage.

Arguments that you make by forming incorrect assumptions about other players in turn reflect poorly on any information you present, even if it is accurate. Please limit your commentary to facts that you know rather than facts you think you know.

[Marsman]

Originally Posted by Madcow

This is the funniest argument in the entire thread.

Ok perhaps I'm exagerating with 6+ rounds but I have seen several passes at least and no one made a scratch on them because they warped so badly by the time you got a glimpse of where they were, they were no longer there and you just end up scarring the walls, ceiling, and floors. Opening fire in a crowded spawn room isn't exactly the smartest move either. The point is that this affects all armors and no one likes being attacked with no way to fight back because they can't see the attacker for more than 1/10 of a sec before they warp somewhere else.

[Queensidecastle]

The infiltrator role is not a combat role, hence the term "Infiltrator". It is probably the most specialized support class there is.

Thats your opinion. Infiltrators have the tools to be quite effective at killing and there isnt any reason for that to change. The recent Rexo buff made this a lot more difficult anyways. Lets not try to roll in an Infiltrator nerf because of unrelated Surgile warp nerfing. I cant speak for Madcow but it seemed clear to him and me as well that people were posting about Infiltrators and didnt have a clue what they were talking about

It seems that the advocates of the massive game nerf just want to continue to ignor the fact that this fix will not stop warping. Here are some snippets from others so I dont have type this all again

Snippet #1 - There's been no official statement about fixing the warp issue. Only that there will be a change to surge so that a player's weapon/tool will be holstered when surge is activated and cannot be used until surge is deactivated manually (ie. surge nerf) So you'll still have guys running up the stairs and continuing to keep running right into the ceiling and magically appearing behind you. It'll just take him longer to pull out his gun and shoot you in the back now.

Snippet #2 - The only positive impact on gameplay, is that it will reduce the occurances of people exploiting surge to get their kills (a good thing); however, it will not completely eliminate it. In fact, warping itself with surge will increase because you surge faster without a weapon drawn, and faster movement speed equates to greater chances to warp. Those who are currently exploiting surge now will warp worse than ever and still use it to kill people. So we are left with a "solution" that may fix one bad thing, albeit not completely, but what are the negative impacts to gameplay?

So since we are down to treating the symptoms of the problem and not fixing to begin with how can someone advocate for the fix that does the most damage to the game as opposed to the least? With the proposed fix, your still going to have warpers and they will just create a new macro that allows them to still kill you from behind like always. Meanwhile the rest of us are nerfed and a whole style of infantry combat was ruined. At least with an idea like no jumping, your only rarely going to have a warp and have the benefit of not ruining the game. Yeah, I would much rather limit the change to an occasional warp (much like with vehicles) than ruin a whole style of gameplay

[Madcow]

Originally Posted by Krinsath

I do have an infiltrator character, thank you very much. Please consider that you are not the end all font of knowledge before posting.

I'm sorry, but this means little to nothing. Everybody probably has a character with the suit. Does that mean you have combat engineering? Does that mean you actually don the suit for any length of time? Does that mean you've ever done a boomer run through a spawn room? You've answered nothing.

Originally Posted by krinsath

It's remarkable how hard it is to inflict damage on something that is 1) Invisible and 2) warping, especially with Client-Side hit detection when there is no feedback on hits for cloakers.

Feedback? You only have to land a paltry few shots, do you really need feedback to tell you that you've done it? It's really not that hard, even in a crowded spawn room you can let loose with a supressor and fear nothing more than a dozen or so grief points. Whoop-de-doo.

Originally Posted by krinsath

Wow, you must be a REALLY bad infiltrator if you can't get close to the spawn room without being hurt. I'm usually at a door lock before someone even suspects I'm there and I've actually watched non-DL equipped soldiers stand right next to me by a generator and not taken damage on the entire way in. Of course, I don't go using surge near the enemy which lights you up like a Roman Candle to any sniper on the walls. Pity the sniper rifle is useless unless you're at point-blank in CQB.

Tell me that story again about not talking about things you don't have knowledge about. See, hypocrisy is fun! It's easy to get to a spawn room when nobody would expect you there (these seem to be the times you are referring to). Try getting to a spawn room in the middle of an all-out base assault. It takes skill, and tons of luck. Stray shots will hit you, period. Then again, that's the only time boomer runs in the spawn room are worthwhile and will help your empire to take the base. Slow the spawners long enough to worry about you, that gets your infantry that much closer to the spawn room with a little less resistance. See, that's what a skilled infiltrator can do for you.

By the way, I haven't used Surge for quite a while. I think Surge and Darklight are the crutch implants that remove too much of the fun from the game. But thanks for playing!

Originally Posted by krinsath

The above statements indicate that you have no idea about the tactic which people are complaining about. If an infiltrator sneaks into the spawn room, waits for an opportune moment and then plants a boomer and runs off, more power to him. The complaint is about the surgers who come screaming in off the stairways outside, plant a boomer and run out the other end and down another incline setting off the boomer. The only base where that isn't a viable tactic is the Bio Lab as the 2 approaches to the spawn room are flat. All the other base layouts have inclines directly adjacent to the spawn room, allowing easy warp entrance and exit. THAT is the tactic being complained about.

Try reading my post again. I'll wait here. Okay, you back? Great. I stated that on surge (or even not surge) boomer runs the infiltrator will most likely go from point A to point B, and on his next run will go back from point B to point A. Few infiltrators will find a point C. If you see an infiltrator enter the spawn room from the door on the left, and see him run out the door on the right, then you exit the spawn room through the left door and wait. He will run right at you on his way out of the room, while you mow him down. You don't even need to get real equipment for this to work. Fun, eh? Which one of us didn't get what people were complaining about?

Originally Posted by krinsath

The infiltrator role is not a combat role, hence the term "Infiltrator". It is probably the most specialized support class there is. It's far from a useless playstyle, and I have great fun sneaking up on snipers and other people who aren't paying attention and knifing/boomering them to bits. I also get just as frustrated when my own teammates shoot me/run me over/fire blast weapons at the guy I'm next to. That's SOE's fault for not making friendly names show up faster than enemy names. I rack up more kills as a sniper, but that's because it fits my general playstyle. I can still rack up 80 kills a night as an infiltrator, but I do it by just that, infiltrating...not by abusing a flaw in the netcode to the fullest possible advantage.

I'm glad you enjoy playing the infiltrator that way. Some of us have different ideas, and it has nothing to do with exploiting bugs and everything to do with having their own playstyle niche. Despite all of the glaring bugs in the game for infil I'd say I'm a better infiltrator/killer than many people are grunts. So I should stop killing lots of people because that's not how you see the infiltrator role? Brace yourself for disappointment, it won't be happening.

Originally Posted by krinsath

Arguments that you make by forming incorrect assumptions about other players in turn reflect poorly on any information you present, even if it is accurate. Please limit your commentary to facts that you know rather than facts you think you know.

Pot, kettle, blahblahblah.

[Lartnev]

Right, I think we need to get back to step one here.

Problem: Warping due to the use of the surge implant whilst having the ability to fight. This means that accidently or by deliberate exploit players are able to fight without receiving fire themselves.

Fix: Remove the ability for people to fight whilst usiing surge by preventing people from having a weapon out.

At the moment it seems people are slapping each other about because infiltrators can do that and infiltrators should do this and to be quite honest it's getting quite pathetic.

If the devs wanted to be lazy they would have just removed surge. They're trying a compromise. Allow people to use surge for crossing distance quickly, but removing the potential for exploit. This won't remove warping entirely, but it will mean that people can't fire during that warp, if they begin firing after the warp at least then they can be hit back, which is the issue at hand. In the end, it doesn't matter if an infiltrator or a rexo plants a boomer and legs it before the anyone knows whats happened due to warping, the problem is that it happens, and the devs are trying to remove the exploit the best they can. Or at least until they can implement a better solution.

[Queensidecastle]

Fix: Remove the ability for people to fight whilst usiing surge by preventing people from having a weapon out

Thats not a fix. People will still warp around and then kill you from behind like always, just now the game recieved a massive nerf to infantry combat. The exploiters just need a new macro which will take about, oh, 15 min after the patch.

Fix: Remove the ability for people to jump while using surge thus practically eleminating warping.

The problem here is that people are picking #1 over #2 and are doing so because they just dont get it.

[Lartnev]

It is a fix to the problem specified, that people can fight whilst warping, if they can't have their weapon out while surging, they can't fight while warping, jumping or not. Perhaps they'll disable jumping later down the line if they can and if you're right we'll all be happy.

Either way, we still have a way until 2.6. Either solution does me fine, JUST REMOVE THE WARP KILLERS! :|

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by Madcow

I'm sorry, but this means little to nothing. Everybody probably has a character with the suit. Does that mean you have combat engineering? Does that mean you actually don the suit for any length of time? Does that mean you've ever done a boomer run through a spawn room? You've answered nothing.

Sheesh...sad to see that basic inference skills are not taught in schools these days. Read my post, see where it mentions boomers? Be a really neat trick to use boomers WITHOUT combat engineering, wouldn't you say? This of course would presume that you put THOUGHT into the post I made before responding.

Originally Posted by Madcow

Feedback? You only have to land a paltry few shots, do you really need feedback to tell you that you've done it? It's really not that hard, even in a crowded spawn room you can let loose with a supressor and fear nothing more than a dozen or so grief points. Whoop-de-doo.

So the post after you point out how stupid the people in the spawn room are, you suggest that hitting them even with a suppressor is a good idea? Welcome to the world of TK.

Originally Posted by Madcow

It's easy to get to a spawn room when nobody would expect you there (these seem to be the times you are referring to). Try getting to a spawn room in the middle of an all-out base assault. It takes skill, and tons of luck. Stray shots will hit you, period. Then again, that's the only time boomer runs in the spawn room are worthwhile and will help your empire to take the base. Slow the spawners long enough to worry about you, that gets your infantry that much closer to the spawn room with a little less resistance. See, that's what a skilled infiltrator can do for you.

If you'd stop making the same mistakes over and over again, maybe it wouldn't be as funny. If someone is actively looking for me, chances are it's a whole degree worse than just walking around in a full on base assault (which this was in the middle of, by the way, amazing how crouch walking in hallways that are NOT the main ones keeps you out of the line of fire). Again, that presumes that you're thinking about things before you respond.

I agree that it is a valuable thing for the main infantry to be able to get into the spawn room easier. My problem is that there's an exploit being abused to do it. If the infiltrator gets there through his own skill and gets things done that way, more power to him. Using a flaw in the netcode to produce it is *not* a valid tactic.

Originally Posted by Madcow

point A to point B, and on his next run will go back from point B to point A.

Not usually, they come in through the "rec room" run out of the left door. Come back the right, head out the back. Run straight left to right. Guess the infiltrators I face are a bit more intelligent than the ones you see.

Originally Posted by Madcow

I'm glad you enjoy playing the infiltrator that way. Some of us have different ideas, and it has nothing to do with exploiting bugs and everything to do with having their own playstyle niche. Despite all of the glaring bugs in the game for infil I'd say I'm a better infiltrator/killer than many people are grunts. So I should stop killing lots of people because that's not how you see the infiltrator role? Brace yourself for disappointment, it won't be happening.

You can kill all the people you jolly well please. Hell, you can even kill them exclusively with boomers and spitfires and knives for all I care. Just don't exploit bugs to do it. I'd say the same thing about someone who used a flaw in the textures or drivers to make hunting infiltrators easier. Using an exploit to get a kill or make a base hack easier or whatever the hell you're using it for is not a valid tactic. It's actually not terribly far removed from cheating, except I can't blame individuals for the slipshod response time from the Dev team.

Originally Posted by Lartnev

Right, I think we need to get back to step one here.

Yes, we did get a bit sidetracked by those defending the playstyles that really on abusing an exploit (and yes, if the Devs are saying it needs to be changed, that would equate to an exploit...whether it should be there or not is no longer a matter of debate and yes, I have argued in defense of "exploit" fixes that have nerfed weapons that were a part of my playstyle, even though I didn't use the exploit for them).

Originally Posted by Lartnev

the devs are trying to remove the exploit the best they can. Or at least until they can implement a better solution.

No truer words have been said in this thread...which is what those of us who understand what a problem Surge has become have been saying since the fix was announced.