Why K:D, Deaths, streaks and other stats are bad, and how PS2 can evolve the genre - Page 12

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-07, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

True. But why would my hardcore leet outfit recruit someone with a KDR of .0001?

Can't believe it took till page 7 to come up. "1337 h4rdc0|23 killa ninjaz" isn't going to be an outfit I'll want to join. I want to be respected for what I've done, not for my kewl sik name: "D34th-sh4d0wz-ninj4"

In order to make sure an outfit knows if I'll make a good addition to their team/playstyle/objectives, there's only 1 solution.

Track EVERYTHING! Stats for EVERY SINGLE THING.

Number of kilometres walked
Number of kilometres run
Number of K's driven
number of k's flown
number of 9mm rounds fired.
number of 9mm rounds hit.
number of shotgun rounds fired
number of shotgun rounds hit

Then, break that down: Number of k's flown in gal. Number of k's flown in ES fighter, Number of k's flown in [whatever]

number of AMSes deployed
number of AMSes deployed in enemy SOI
number of AMSes deployed in enemy CY
number of spawns from your AMS
number of non-squad spawns from your AMS
number of non-outfit spawns from your AMS
number of kills resulting from people spawning from your AMS

# hacks. # door hacks, outpost hacks, vehicle hacks (if applicable)

This is the only way I can prove my worth in any reasonable way. Me, personally, I don't care about K/D. Never have. To me, it's about capping bases. To cap bases you need AMSes nearby and zerglings.

If there was an "AMSes pulled" stat I honestly think it would match my kill stat. I regularly end up playing for 3 hours with less than 20 kills and more than 60 deaths. I always have assists in the thousands.

Would my outfit kick me because my K/D ratio is so crap? No, because I'm SINGLE HANDEDLY responsible for most of the caps my outfit makes. My AMSes, Lodestars, Gals, GGs and Engineering support mean the knuckledraggers can go and do the shooting. If my AMS wasn't around, they would have to spawn far far far away and would never make it back to the CC.

/rant

Anyway, if every last detail is tracked you could show off whatever is your particular strength. Mine is to have the first and closest AMS deployed. Which is WAY WAY WAY more important than how many kills I personally get because my assists are way over 1000 in a 3 hour session.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-07, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

"Why aren't don't they record my kills?"

I've never said that kills shouldn't be tracked. In fact I've said numerous times that they should and its an important and relevant stat. You're misrepresenting my message, and I'm not going to respond to your trolls or personal attacks.

Aurmanite · 2012-03-07, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Can't believe it took till page 7 to come up. "1337 h4rdc0|23 killa ninjaz" isn't going to be an outfit I'll want to join. I want to be respected for what I've done, not for my kewl sik name: "D34th-sh4d0wz-ninj4"

In order to make sure an outfit knows if I'll make a good addition to their team/playstyle/objectives, there's only 1 solution.

Track EVERYTHING! Stats for EVERY SINGLE THING.

Number of kilometres walked
Number of kilometres run
Number of K's driven
number of k's flown
number of 9mm rounds fired.
number of 9mm rounds hit.
number of shotgun rounds fired
number of shotgun rounds hit

Then, break that down: Number of k's flown in gal. Number of k's flown in ES fighter, Number of k's flown in [whatever]

number of AMSes deployed
number of AMSes deployed in enemy SOI
number of AMSes deployed in enemy CY
number of spawns from your AMS
number of non-squad spawns from your AMS
number of non-outfit spawns from your AMS
number of kills resulting from people spawning from your AMS

# hacks. # door hacks, outpost hacks, vehicle hacks (if applicable)

This is the only way I can prove my worth in any reasonable way. Me, personally, I don't care about K/D. Never have. To me, it's about capping bases. To cap bases you need AMSes nearby and zerglings.

If there was an "AMSes pulled" stat I honestly think it would match my kill stat. I regularly end up playing for 3 hours with less than 20 kills and more than 60 deaths. I always have assists in the thousands.

Would my outfit kick me because my K/D ratio is so crap? No, because I'm SINGLE HANDEDLY responsible for most of the caps my outfit makes. My AMSes, Lodestars, Gals, GGs and Engineering support mean the knuckledraggers can go and do the shooting. If my AMS wasn't around, they would have to spawn far far far away and would never make it back to the CC.

/rant

Anyway, if every last detail is tracked you could show off whatever is your particular strength. Mine is to have the first and closest AMS deployed. Which is WAY WAY WAY more important than how many kills I personally get because my assists are way over 1000 in a 3 hour session.

I completely agree with the spirit of this post. Track EVERYTHING.

Aurmanite · 2012-03-07, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I've never said that kills shouldn't be tracked. In fact I've said numerous times that they should and its an important and relevant stat. You're misrepresenting my message, and I'm not going to respond to your trolls or personal attacks.

Ah shazbot. That sentence was supposed to be "Why don't they track my deaths"

I'm not trolling you, but I may at times attack your position. This is a discussion thread.

Graywolves · 2012-03-07, 09:39 PM

I don't think any outfit is going to care about your K/D. Outfits in Planetside usually want people who can squad up, will learn how the outfit operates, and work as a team.

Your personal stats will do little to sell yourself to a good outfit.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-07, 09:41 PM

Sure while we're at it, lets track...

Bases we've failed to defend.
Vehicles we've lost.
People we've failed to revive.
Territories we've failed to hold.
Times we've been teamkilled.
Friendlies we've killed.
Bases we've failed to capture.
Vehicles we've failed to destroy.
Encounters we've failed to escape (also known as "deaths")
Times we've been run over by tanks.

Lets have a whole stats page devoted to our failures.

I'm being sarcastic, but all of the above stats are negative stats just like deaths. Generally they aren't tracked because they are a measure of failure, not accomplishment. Deaths are the same way. Focus on accomplishments, not failures. Not everything should not be tracked. Positive things should be tracked, like Galaxies deployed, people you've carried into battle, etc. Negative things shouldn't be tracked.

Aurmanite · 2012-03-07, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Sure while we're at it, lets track...

Bases we've failed to defend.
Vehicles we've lost.
People we've failed to revive.
Territories we've failed to hold.
Times we've been teamkilled.
Friendlies we've killed.
Bases we've failed to capture.
Vehicles we've failed to destroy.
Encounters we've failed to escape (also known as "deaths")
Times we've been run over by tanks.

Lets have a whole stats page devoted to our failures.

A number of these aren't really conducive to being tracked. But yes, I agree that a lot of these should be tracked. Specifically: TKs, number of times TK'D, deaths by specific weapons, vehicles destroyed, number of owned vehicles destroyed.

I'm being sarcastic, but all of the above stats are negative stats just like deaths. Generally they aren't tracked because they are a measure of failure, not accomplishment. Deaths are the same way. Focus on accomplishments, not failures. Not everything should not be tracked. Positive things should be tracked, like Galaxies deployed, people you've carried into battle, etc. Negative things shouldn't be tracked.

Why the hell not? I'm a grown ass man, I can handle the information. Not only that, but its information I want... information I expect from a shooter in 2012.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-07, 09:51 PM

Bases we've failed to defend. - yes
Vehicles we've lost. - yes
People we've failed to revive. - yes
Territories we've failed to hold. - yes... maybe
Times we've been teamkilled. - yes, and the names of who did it
Friendlies we've killed. - yes and the names of who it was (payback from above)
Bases we've failed to capture. - how would you measure that? yes, depending. Ghost hacks no. failed to capture if more than 50 enemies in SOI, yes.
Vehicles we've failed to destroy. - impossible. Spawning on the other side of the continent counts against me? track # vehicles damaged and not killed, yes.
Encounters we've failed to escape (also known as "deaths") - yes.
Times we've been run over by tanks. - yes.

And also add in "amount of damage inflicted that did not result in kills"
amount of damage done to vehicles by non-AV weapons.

Amount of damage to shields
amount of damage to flesh.

umm...

and more.

Lord Cosine · 2012-03-07, 10:06 PM

Ok, I think I get the real issue. Other players will go to your profile and be like lol this guys sucks, and then pm you in game with his find.

Yeah that's lame. I've heard that WoW has had some similar issues with Armory Profiles being public.

I guess the best solution would be to default all of those stat pages to private, and then allow you the option to make your stats private /friends only/ outfit only / empire only/ public.

That would pretty much solve all the issues methinks. I personally would like to know how many times I've failed and in what ways, but if it brings about a crappy community as a result than its not worth it.

Tom Peters · 2012-03-07, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Can't believe it took till page 7 to come up. "1337 h4rdc0|23 killa ninjaz" isn't going to be an outfit I'll want to join. I want to be respected for what I've done, not for my kewl sik name: "D34th-sh4d0wz-ninj4"

In order to make sure an outfit knows if I'll make a good addition to their team/playstyle/objectives, there's only 1 solution.

Track EVERYTHING! Stats for EVERY SINGLE THING.

Number of kilometres walked
Number of kilometres run
Number of K's driven
number of k's flown
number of 9mm rounds fired.
number of 9mm rounds hit.
number of shotgun rounds fired
number of shotgun rounds hit

Then, break that down: Number of k's flown in gal. Number of k's flown in ES fighter, Number of k's flown in [whatever]

number of AMSes deployed
number of AMSes deployed in enemy SOI
number of AMSes deployed in enemy CY
number of spawns from your AMS
number of non-squad spawns from your AMS
number of non-outfit spawns from your AMS
number of kills resulting from people spawning from your AMS

# hacks. # door hacks, outpost hacks, vehicle hacks (if applicable)

This is the only way I can prove my worth in any reasonable way. Me, personally, I don't care about K/D. Never have. To me, it's about capping bases. To cap bases you need AMSes nearby and zerglings.

If there was an "AMSes pulled" stat I honestly think it would match my kill stat. I regularly end up playing for 3 hours with less than 20 kills and more than 60 deaths. I always have assists in the thousands.

Would my outfit kick me because my K/D ratio is so crap? No, because I'm SINGLE HANDEDLY responsible for most of the caps my outfit makes. My AMSes, Lodestars, Gals, GGs and Engineering support mean the knuckledraggers can go and do the shooting. If my AMS wasn't around, they would have to spawn far far far away and would never make it back to the CC.

/rant

Anyway, if every last detail is tracked you could show off whatever is your particular strength. Mine is to have the first and closest AMS deployed. Which is WAY WAY WAY more important than how many kills I personally get because my assists are way over 1000 in a 3 hour session.

QUOTED FOR ADDITIONAL TRUTH. TRACK EVERY STAT KNOWN TO MANKIND.

Corax · 2012-03-07, 10:18 PM

TL;DR
Stat-driven people need love too. If you dont like the stat system....then ignore it and continue to play with people that are like minded to you. Or take advantage of the tactical opportunities it provides. Your choice.

My personal opinion on this is that it serves a purpose. It encourages more people to play the game. Which is something we all want. And it does provide a tactically useful group of players to the Empires and the game.

If you have players that do only focus on their stats. Then you have a nice group of cannon fodder grunts. They will actually provide a vital aspect of the game. Players who are there to push and fight in the front lines. They provide a continual pressure on the enemy which allows the more specialized Outfits and teams to do all the special forces and co-ordinated squads and platoons.

Instead of focusing on OMG stat whores suck at teamplay. Think of it as another tool for commanders to use.
A Good Commander can use any type of person to achieve a goal.
A Great Commander puts the right person in the right place.
A Crappy Commander complains that people wont play they way he wants them too.

And honestly I am looking forward to all the nice modern stat stuff that is coming along. Kill-streaks, stat tracking, I completely agreed with and enjoyed everything stat related in the GDC demo. But in turn I am not a Stat-whore. I prefer to guide/lead/co-ordinate fights and work behind enemy lines while also providing support via spawning points.

Every fight needs the zerg if you want to have those huge battles. There is nothing wrong with having a modern stat system and killstreak system. It does appeal to a whole 'nother fanbase.

Furthermore as the stat-chasers start to see the success of the more co-ordinated outfits then they will start to apply and join in with the people who expect and demand teamwork to squad up with them. Then they will see their stats start to skyrocket as they learn what Planetside is all about.

Every player in planetside that has joined outfits started out the same way from their first day of logging in.

You were part of the zerg, just killing whats in front of you.
You joined a squad. And started to understand working together.
You spotted an outfit rolling together or heard an advertisement somewhere.
You joined an outfit. And plunged headfirst into teamplay, and found out just how much fun it really was when approached properly.

Basically, there is a place for the stat-focused people in PS2. Its called the frontline troops. They provide the battle and other people to kill.

TL;DR
Stat-driven people need love too. If you dont like the stat system....then ignore it and continue to play with people that are like minded to you. Or take advantage of the tactical opportunities it provides. Your choice.

Whalenator · 2012-03-07, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Peters

QUOTED FOR ADDITIONAL TRUTH. TRACK EVERY STAT KNOWN TO MANKIND.

http://forums.gametrailers.com/threa...ow-can/1232786

Eyeklops · 2012-03-07, 11:11 PM

Why only look at the bad side of stats tracking? These stats provide "offline" PS2 interactvity, advanced tactics, and can help outfit leaders.

Offline Entertainment:
The fires of the battle have worn down, and the base is finally flipped. It's nice to check your stats. Most effective gun, average accuracy, facility captures, all entertainment while your grab a bite to eat. Stats are good, information is good. Please don't take away my late night snack entertainment.

Tactics (Future):
Advanced intel says the your outfit base is the target for GOTR's for raid night. The truly dedicated leaders will gather intel. They will seek to know what type of outfit they are up against. Stats provide another layer of strategy on the battlefield.

Outfit Management:
Once outfit's get so large, the leaders need to know who performs best.
Yes, I am talking about a report card for virtual murders. Stats can help pick training officer candidates, flight leaders, or even your personal guard. Why campaign against something that a command structure could use to become more efficient?

That is all.

P.S. I was going to place Delta Triad or Future Crew in for GOTR above, but it wouldn't work. Targets don't get advanced warning with the likes of DT or FC. The door gets busted down the door, faces get ripped off, and the base gets pillaged. Every night is raid night for them and their targets are not safe.

Ohh, and by the way

SKYeXile · 2012-03-07, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

P.S. I was going to place Delta Triad or Future Crew in for GOTR above, but it wouldn't work. Targets don't get advanced warning with the likes of DT or FC. The door gets busted down the door, faces get ripped off, and the base gets pillaged. Every night is raid night for them and their targets are not safe.

Ohh, and by the way

Good move, FC is versatile, while we have our preferred play style we will come at you with anything when the situation arises.

they thought in outfit wars we would zerg with aircraft, they pulled skyguards, WE PULLED MAGS!

**Malorn** · 2012-03-07, 11:36 PM

Yeah I think people missed my sarcasm with tracking the fails, but the amount of support it has is truly disturbing.