Fact: I play BF3, but would rather play PS1

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by WaryWizard

So somewhere farther back in the topic (I'm not going to go back and look for it after reading this hole thing) they were talking about animations and numbers to see whether the masses really want it, or something like that.

Well how about someone just record a few vehicle animations for a video. Then just show the same recordings, but cut it so that the actual animations aren't shown. You could have the guy run up to the vehicle, and enter it so that you have enough time to play around with.

Then just post that video on various forums and such, and have a poll of would you rather have animations or not. Given time and views, I'm sure the numbers will tell what the general consensus is.

Most people won't respond, and most people won't even be looking at it. However, companies like DICE through Battlelog, and Sony through their station launcher mechanism have the ability to poll massive sections of the community. I've seen them do it in Everquest.

Why can't they put that power to use on things like this instead of just making assumptions?

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by WaryWizard

So somewhere farther back in the topic (I'm not going to go back and look for it after reading this hole thing) they were talking about animations and numbers to see whether the masses really want it, or something like that.

Well how about someone just record a few vehicle animations for a video. Then just show the same recordings, but cut it so that the actual animations aren't shown. You could have the guy run up to the vehicle, and enter it so that you have enough time to play around with.

Then just post that video on various forums and such, and have a poll of would you rather have animations or not. Given time and views, I'm sure the numbers will tell what the general consensus is.

Look the question is not if we want animations or not, of course we do. The question is if we can tolerate the game without them. The devs have stated that it would be too much work and push the game back further. If this is such an important issue to push the game back then it needs to be stated clearly, concisely, and with numbers.

And definitely not with this anecdotal stubborness that gets shoveled around.

[Tialian]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

EXACTLY!

plus theres D3 and GW2 beta, both way more fun than playing hi res trash.

My thoughts exactly.

D3, GW2, and PS2 are the only future games I'm looking at.

[Tialian]

Originally Posted by elfailo

If that's the logic, I can do the same: Diablo 3 sucks because Blizzard doesn't give a crap about PVP as established clearly in Cataclysm.

Diablo was never about PvP, frankly I don't care that it won't be there at release.

Diablo is about killing monsters and collecting phat loot, they will achieve that at release. Everything else is just gravy (or frosting for those who prefer the cake analogy).

[Tialian]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Look the question is not if we want animations or not, of course we do. The question is if we can tolerate the game without them. The devs have stated that it would be too much work and push the game back further. If this is such an important issue to push the game back then it needs to be stated clearly, concisely, and with numbers.

And definitely not with this anecdotal stubborness that gets shoveled around.

I for one don't want to "tolerate" a game, I want to be sucked in. Without some form of vehicle enter/exit animations its not going to happen.

Vehicle enter/exit animations might just be one thing, but its important. Think of a puzzle where one of the pieces has been lost, sure you can make out the picture but the puzzle is ultimately incomplete.

The devs have all the pieces to the puzzle, its up to them which ones get "lost." If they try to put a puzzle piece where it doesn't belong, they shouldn't just try to force it so they can complete the puzzle faster.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by elfailo

If that's the logic, I can do the same: Diablo 3 sucks because Blizzard doesn't give a crap about PVP as established clearly in Cataclysm.

T:A isn't nearly perfect, you might call it pay-to-win (it isn't, you can unlock everything with XP), but it's either that or another 5 years of generic, consolified military shooter scrub games, gg.

PvP in diablo and WoW is like PVE to Planetside 2.

[cellinaire]

Did Higby mention even once that they will think about enter/exit animation? Or did he say it's not outside the realm of possibility?

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Tialian

I for one don't want to "tolerate" a game, I want to be sucked in. Without some form of vehicle enter/exit animations its not going to happen.

Vehicle enter/exit animations might just be one thing, but its important. Think of a puzzle where one of the pieces has been lost, sure you can make out the picture but the puzzle is ultimately incomplete.

The devs have all the pieces to the puzzle, its up to them which ones get "lost." If they try to put a puzzle piece where it doesn't belong, they shouldn't just try to force it so they can complete the puzzle faster.

I'm getting tired of these really bad analogies. Your picture already exists. It was called PS1. It barely got bought from the puzzle store. Even wikipedia states that it only had a peak of 75k active subscriptions.


According to MMOData.net it even gets beat by ToonTown Online and PoTBS. Hell, Star Trek Online even beat it at one point. EQOA gave it a run for its money, on a console.

So why don't we start putting together a new picture (puzzle, car, cake what have you) with the help of the devs instead of saying that it really cant be too much work to add a few animations? Unless a digital animation artist wants to chip in we don't know how much work that would be. Why don't we suggest solutions to player concerns that are actually possible and far more important for them to do? It'd be better then alienating them from the community because it is constantly belittling their work.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

So why don't we start putting together a new picture (puzzle, car, cake what have you) with the help of the devs instead of saying that it really cant be too much work to add a few animations? Unless a digital animation artist wants to chip in we don't know how much work that would be. Why don't we suggest solutions to player concerns that are actually possible for them to do? It'd be better then alienating them from the community because it is constantly belittling their work.

I really think that if they thought animations were that important to people, they would do them.

But how would they know whether they are or aren't? There were sporadic postings in the buildup to BF3 asking for this too. however, in BF's case I really don't think it had much to do with immersion, but that people didn't want their enemies instantly escaping from gunfire.

Again, I think they need to find a way to poll the community. I almost wish that an independent community and website could be formed where people of all games and platforms come together to vote on issues. It would need at least like...50,000 voters per poll to mean much, though.

[Eighm]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Unless a digital animation artist wants to chip in we don't know how much work that would be.

I majored in Digital Animation in college. Here's what I said a few pages ago:

Originally Posted by Eighm

It wouldn't take much time if all of the models had been built with this intent in the first place, but they weren't. Adding in animations like the ones from PS would involve completely remodeling every single vehicle model, save maybe the ATV since it's completely exposed.

Oh, and for some of these vehicles, like the Galaxy with its 5 or 6 interiors, would effectively have their poly count doubled, which would be a big hit to performance.

[Galapogos]

It is true that player were invulnerable to damage once the animation started, but it also gave the players that were shooting at the guy a few seconds to either pull out jammers and av, or at least try to get to cover, and if the player entering the vehicle is entering the gunner seat of a prowler or vanguard, those seconds are pretty critical.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by elfailo

If you hit the enter vehicle button in PS1, the animation would start, but you could no longer be damaged. I don't see how you could have missed this after what, 8 years of playing it?

yea...really they could get the same effect with a short timer before weapons come online, they dont need to waste development time on an animation where the player doesn't take damage anyway.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by elfailo

If you hit the enter vehicle button in PS1, the animation would start, but you could no longer be damaged. I don't see how you could have missed this after what, 8 years of playing it?

Except I was talking about what Battlefield players wanted animations for. They certainly don't want it to make you invulnerable.

[Tialian]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

I'm getting tired of these really bad analogies. Your picture already exists. It was called PS1. It barely got bought from the puzzle store. Even wikipedia states that it only had a peak of 75k active subscriptions.

What do you think they only have a peak of 75k?

It wasn't because the original game was bad.

It was because the game was originally poorly advertised both before (low initial playerbase) and after (few new players) the game came out , the expansions were rushed out the door without thorough testing (killed what playerbase it had).

PlanetSide was the amazing game no one knew about, SOE treated it like an experiment rather than fully supporting it. Hell I wouldn't have known about PlanetSide if the game I had tried at the time (Shadowbane) didn't turn out to be a colossal piece of crap.

[Brusi]

I doubt the devs will get to this point in this thread, but if any of you do... it's worth noting that this is probably on the low to average page count for threads about entry/exit animations.

If the game won't support the complexity of vehicles models with doors and internals then hopefully we will at least see some sort of compromise? If not something clever and transparent, like more complex replacement models that are displayed only during entry/exit animations or something then at least show the avatars reaching for the door handle, or climbing up on top of the tank to open the hatch before they fucken simply vanish.

I'm not suggesting that they waste dev time now on non-essential animations when they could be spending that time getting the game ready for beta, but it's definitely something that they shouldn't completely rationalise from the game as it would be so much richer for the little things such as this.

Projects tend to lose sight of some of the non-essential details once the investment starts paying back and BAU kicks in.