Higby on Magriders - Page 13

KaskaMatej · 2013-02-20, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by superseohyun

correct me if i am wrong but isnt the data about MBT vs MBT? i mean, a prowler which got blown up near a tech plant by HA before he even lays eyes on an enemy MBT surely wont count in the K/D ratio right?

Only tank vs tank killing blows. If you'd want to give infantry kill/death there too, Prowler's KDR would shoot through the roof.

Twido · 2013-02-20, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

very rough estimate:
- 100 Prowlers will kill 110 Vanguards+Magriders (KDR of 1.1)
- 90 Vanguards will kill 80 Prowlers+Magriders (KDR of 0.89)
- 80 Magriders will kill 80 Vanguards+Prowlers (KDR of 1.0)

110/270 ≈ 0.40
80/270 ≈ 0.30 //(times two, of course)

0.40/0.30 ≈ 1.33 ≈ 130%

Because we don't have actual numbers we can only estimate, or worse, guesstimate, and unless we actually get actual numbers that is the best we can do.

Thanks for that.
I know that you made the disclaimer that it is only a rough calculation but doesn't it rely on the extra prowlers and vanguards being pulled all actually taking part in tank vs tank battles and not getting destroyed by other means? I imagine that compared to all the other sources of death, being killed by another tank is actually in the minority (or at least it is in my experience).

Do you really think that the Vanguard is just as good as the Magrider despite having a worse K/D ratio just because it gets pulled more often? If anything, when it comes to the MBT, it is the NC that should be complaining.

KaskaMatej · 2013-02-20, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Twido

Do you really think that the Vanguard is just as good as the Magrider despite having a worse K/D ratio just because it gets pulled more often? If anything, when it comes to the MBT, it is the NC that should be complaining.

Yes, I think Vanguards are as good as Magriders, they only lack (slightly) in either killing power or armour compared to Prowlers. If you see, the Mag-Van chart is very very close, one day one is better, the next day the other. Overall, the average is equal between that match-up. From that chart I'd say don't change neither Magrider's or Vanguard's damage or armour

Prowler-Van is where Prowler gets the most "kick." Prowler is consistently better than Vanguard (not much mind you, 0.85 KDR to 1.15 KDR) but it's enough to show.

They'd need to slightly reduce the damage or armour of Prowler, but so slightly that is only noticeable in bigger tank battles (10+ tanks on each side).

What they need to do about Magriders is to fix their movement. With GU02 they "fixed" some of the bugs that gave them advantage (diagonal movement increased speed and traction) and introduced some more bugs (the strafing isn't as responsive as it should be). They just aren't as fun and unique as they used to be. Now it's just a "conventional" tank that hovers and strafes. It doesn't have any more traction, can't get anywhere other tanks can't get (while they still have the advantages of higher projectile damage and speed). Sucked the fun out of being a Magrider driver, really.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-20, 02:05 PM

If you mean that Vanguards might lack a bit in armour when compared to the Prowler then the Vanguard has more armour than any other MBT, except rear armour.
Both the Magrider and Prowler have the same amount of health, the same with all three tanks, and armour.
So if they need to change anything, about the changes that they've already made, then they would need to lower the Prowler damage a bit.
Personally I would rather they just vastly improve the ability to hit with both rounds, make them reload individually, give a special ability that doesn't turn you into a bunker etc. and just set the damage back to where it was. But that's just me

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 02:49 PM

I doubt we will ever see any statistics that aren't so completely cherry picked. I mean why show tank vs. tank K/D in the first place instead of just general K/D by the tanks? What about infantry kills? What about aircraft kills?

Simply acting like the only way for tanks to be even is if the tank vs. tank K/D is even is just off.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-20, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I doubt we will ever see any statistics that aren't so completely cherry picked. I mean why show tank vs. tank K/D in the first place instead of just general K/D by the tanks? What about infantry kills? What about aircraft kills?

Simply acting like the only way for tanks to be even is if the tank vs. tank K/D is even is just off.

They are irrelevant if you are balancing Tank VS. Tank.

You do not compare 2 kinds of apples and toss in oranges.

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

They are irrelevant if you are balancing Tank VS. Tank.

You do not compare 2 kinds of apples and toss in oranges.

What are you talking about dude? If one tank got twice as many infantry kills as another but only half as many tank kills it would be irrelevant in your book?

What about the fact that the changes to Prowlers and Vanguards also make them stronger against every other armored unit and not just Magriders?

A Prowler with lockdown does so much damage now at huge range that they can destroy Sunderers with multiple engineers which the other tanks can't even hurt on their own - and that is a direct consequence of the balance changes that are meant to make Prowlers even in tank vs. tank combat.

How is that fair?

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-20, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

What are you talking about dude? If one tank got twice as many infantry kills as another but only half as many tank kills it would be irrelevant in your book?

When the context is about tanks and tank encounters, yes.

Your reasons are clear. You believe, that a prowler is the best at and has the most infinity kills. Because of this unfounded belief, you want to use that to say that prowlers are over powered in Tank VS. Tank comparisons. For some reason.

All tank shells are lethal to infinity, it does not matter what platform it is. Funny thing is, the VS and NC secondary ES guns are better than the TR one at infinity killing. More efficient as well, as the Vulcan has to waste a whole clip to kill one.

I also believe that the myth that all TR spec for High explosive is also false. But I don't bring it into a conversation about Tank VS. Tank effectiveness.

You also seem to be perpetuating that Higby has some sort of motivation to lie about the numbers, or at the very least obfuscate them to some purpose.

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 03:30 PM

So you're perfectly fine with a tank that's massively overpowered against other units than tanks as long as the tanks are even? Cool beans.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-20, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

So you're perfectly fine with a tank that's massively overpowered against other units than tanks as long as the tanks are even? Cool beans.

That they are "massively overpowered" is not a verifiable conclusion.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-20, 03:36 PM

Uh.. Hickup?

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 03:36 PM

It would be if Higby didn't hold back the numbers huh?

And the fact that Prowlers have insanely superior DPS and much better accuracy than the other tanks in lockdown mode is not something you can debate, that's simply a fact, and it affects every unit, not just Magriders.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-20, 03:37 PM

I'm sure its a conspiracy.

Lock down?

Can the prowler also zoom away or toss up an extra shield? Not everything is numbers when you balance things.

And to answer your highly loaded straw-man, no.

Graywolves · 2013-02-20, 03:48 PM

Hold on, I need to grab my tin foil hat.

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 03:50 PM

So the Prowler just gets double damage in situations where it doesn't need to move, while still having as much damage as other tanks even while it is moving? ´
Where is the tradeoff there? You aren't forced to go to lockdown to attack, you just get a huge damage bonus whenever you don't need to move. What do other tanks get when they don't need to move? Oh yea, nothing.

Bunch of whiners you lot are, trying to protect your overpowered Prowler. Just shows that you don't care about balance in the first place, you just want to be on the sunny side of bad balance.