Customization Woes - Page 13

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 07:01 PM

Leave it up to the devs to decide what's viable and what's not. We, due to a lack of information and technical skill, can't really make those assumptions.

For anyone reading this, including devs, I want to spend my money on skins, don't allow them to be turned off by other players.

I want to spend my money on skins, and I want to play a game that doesn't feel like TF2 lite with a bunch of clowns running around in a rainbow of colors. I want to play a badass, Empire vs Empire game where it feels like I'm truly a part of a vast war-machine of disciplined and largely uniform troops. But I don't want to deny others access to less than serious skins either. I hope it's obvious which is the more reasonable side in this debate. If you're having trouble figuring it out, it's not the one arguing that players should have things forced upon them just because some want to taunt others and feel like special snowflakes.

Give players options and control. Players dig any kind of control you can give them over the content of their gaming. Create skins that appeal to a wide variety of gamers, but allow those who dislike them to hide them. Do this and you will have a happy playerbase.

Purple · 2012-05-06, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Yeah lol. I'm done. I've made my points and have rehashed them several times over. For anyone reading this, including devs, I want to spend my money on skins, don't allow them to be turned off by other players.

Create skins that fit within the universe and if they don't charge extra. Do this and you will have a happy playerbase.

great way of putting it. i truly believe that the devs wont put ridiculous skins in the game. only ones that work well with it.

Kipper · 2012-05-06, 07:20 PM

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

The devs will deliver more of what is selling (as directed by the bean-counters), so the more silliness people buy into, the more silliness will happen. If the level of silliness gets intolerable for too many people and they leave, then silliness will be toned down. Likewise, if people leave because there isn't enough silliness - expect more of it. There will be graphs of silliness vs number of active players. Clown hats over time, so to speak. Seriously.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

Sledgecrushr · 2012-05-06, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

The decision will be made by SoE accountants.

I don't want to grief anyone, and I don't want to look ridiculous or see anything that looks ridiculous - but I will be happy to support the game while I'm enjoying it and hope to see that other people are doing the same, provided its as awesome as it looks like it will be. As someone who runs their own business, I don't always like the projects I'm working on, I like working on awesome stuff, but sometimes I have to do relatively boring stuff because it brings in the money and that's what being in business is about. Awesome product is merely a means by which sales & profit are generated.

I think many people will be turned off by ridiculousness, so I see your viewpoint more than you perhaps think - players that are will find something else to play; and a rather one sided meeting will take place:

"hmm, when we made clown hats and ice cream truck sunderers, we lost 3% of our player-base and 10% of our revenue. Remove the clown hats and ice cream trucks, this instant!".

Following this, an email will go out saying "Please come back to PS2, We've removed clown hats and ice cream trucks!". Everyone will be happy once more.

Now..... If you go ahead in your large zerg numbers and buy clown hats and ice-cream trucks, then they release indian head-dresses and fire engines, and you buy those too - THIS meeting will take place:

"When we made indian head-dresses and fire-engines, our player base remained the same and we made 15% more revenue! Make more quirky hats and silly vehicles, this instant!".

Future players of Planetside 2 - its your choice. Make the right one!

If everyone is buying clown hats and little red fire trucks=money for PS2.
I think what you are trying to say is if PS2 comes out with a dumbass skin and no one bought it they might take it out of the cash shop. And youre right, that is something I would never buy. Now a lime green chicken suit on the other hand...

JPalmer · 2012-05-06, 07:26 PM

edit: lol nvm

Sledgecrushr · 2012-05-06, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

The devs will deliver more of what is selling (as directed by the bean-counters), so the more silliness people buy into, the more silliness will happen. If the level of silliness gets intolerable for too many people and they leave, then silliness will be toned down. Likewise, if people leave because there isn't enough silliness - expect more of it. There will be graphs of silliness vs number of active players. Clown hats over time, so to speak. Seriously.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

Yeah exactly what you said here 8 )

Sledgecrushr · 2012-05-06, 07:28 PM

And I love the turn stuff off option for custom skin, once you have purchased a particular skin you should then have the right to turn that particular skin off.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

Dude, seriously. I'm done with this thread because you're opting out of logic as well as custom skins.

It's a financial decision pure and simple.

Chill dude, I simply disagree with how you look at it financially.

There's no hard facts about how any of this would work. Financial theorycrafting isn't something that's set in stone and can only have one outcome. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "opting out of logic" and I've said repeatedly that I don't want to get rid of custom skins.

Your individual happiness does not matter - the collective happiness of the entire playerbase, as measured by the number of downloads, active accounts, and spend on cash shop items is all that matters. The more awesome the game, the more people will try it, like it, play it, and spend money on it - that not cynicism by the way, that's reality.

I'm not speaking for my individual happiness, I'm speaking for everyone that feels as I do. I'm not the only one in this thread who has expressed interest in this option, so stop trying to make it seem like it's all something that I'm the only person in the world pushing for.

The job of the producers of this game is to cater for as many tastes as they can without actually pissing any one of them off entirely. They want you, the serious player. They want me, the XP bonus buying and occasional skin purchasing player, and yes, they even want the TF2 silly hat obsessive player who wants to troll you while actually dressed as a troll (in a pirate hat).

Their job is to find the balance that means we all co-exist in a state of perpetual, light hearted(!) all out war, and that between all possible types of player and play-style, we play often, and spend money often.

That is all there is to it!

Which is all that I was offering. A way to possibly balance it and accommodate all play styles. I've tried to be incredibly civil despite the fact that the main argument hasn't been a debate over viability but rather people being, admittedly even, selfish over others having the option to hide skins.

Kipper · 2012-05-06, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

Which is all that I was offering. A way to possibly balance it and accommodate all play styles. I've tried to be incredibly civil despite the fact that the main argument hasn't been a debate over viability but rather people being, admittedly even, selfish over others having the option to hide skins.

Yes, which is perfectly legitimate - nobody is arguing with the fact that in a perfect world, you get to have your burger your way.

I'm merely pointing out that I for one would pay less for something when I knew there was an opt-out, and maybe wouldn't buy it at all. Not because I care individually that you saw my new customisation or you didn't, but because if a quarter, or half the player base (even if that figure is assumed) was choosing to remove the only function of these cosmetic items from their game, it would make it a less attractive purchase.

You said you would buy stuff, so riddle me this:

1. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it (its 1st person, not 3rd person), everyone you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 100 people will see it. 5% (5) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

2. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it, half of the people you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 50 of them will see it. 5% (2-3) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

Which sounds like the best deal to both you and the developer?

You said it yourself - when you think something about something and its reasonable - you tend not to be the only person. If a quarter of the playerbase thought like you and turned things off, and a quarter of the playerbase thought like me and didn't buy things on that principle, then it can only result in less revenue - which is bad for everyone.

What you are saying makes sense from a players point of view, but not from that of a games producer who wants to persuade people that buying virtual items is a good use of their disposable income.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

You said yourself - when you think something about something and its reasonable - you tend not to be the only person. If a quarter of the playerbase thought like you and turned things off, and a quarter of the playerbase thought like me and didn't buy things on that principle, then it can only result in less revenue - which is bad for everyone.

It seems like a very shaky principle to me, one which most wouldn't be able to stick to once they saw a skin that really struck their fancy. I can see a few being stubborn, but I doubt it would last for most.

If in the end profits have to be sacrificed somewhere and someone can't be made happy, I'd prefer all players to have more options and the stubborn players who aren't wanting to spend anything at all to be the ones who move on. It wouldn't be any larger than the number of players lost from the reverse, and all players would be better off due to having an option for an increase in player control.

1. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it (its 1st person, not 3rd person), everyone you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 100 people will see it. 5% (5) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

2. Buy item X that you quite like, its $10 and while you won't really see it, half of the people you meet in game will. It has no other function. You will not be any more visible, less visible, powerful or less powerful. If you see 100 people, 50 of them will see it. 5% (2-3) of those people will like it so much they will go and buy it too.

Which sounds like the best deal to both you and the developer?

It's not a scenario that applies to my proposed system. Before players can hide a skin they'd have to first view it in a previewer or in a screenshot at least. Each skin is individually shown or hidden at the players discretion, so they can still use skins they like. Therefore, the same number of players who enjoy it would be introduced to it and given the option to buy and use it regardless of whether they use the option for hiding skins or not.

Kipper · 2012-05-06, 08:02 PM

So 2 more questions, if you don't mind.

1. You'd be as happy spending $10 on something that's half as useful (for the one and only use it has) as it could be? Or would you not expect it to cost $5?

By this token - would you go to subway and pay the same amount for a 6" sandwich as you would a 12" one?

2. If you were running the show, how many developer-hours at the associated cost do you propose to use on building a system that doesn't make you any money?

Having this option is unlikely at best to attract any new players, since it won't be an advertised feature. "Fully customisable characters!", "You can turn off peoples fully customised characters!".

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

1. You'd be as happy spending $10 on something that's half as useful (for the one and only use it has) as it could be? Or would you not expect it to cost $5?

See, I disagree on your idea of usefulness. If the player who sees it doesn't care about the skin, it isn't "useful" in any regard either way.

But yeah, I buy things for myself, not for the sake of others. What others think of it doesn't factor into what I buy. The other people who appreciate it are the only others I care about, I don't mind if others hide it, or dislike it, or whatever.

By this token - would you go to subway and pay the same amount for a 6" sandwich as you would a 12" one?

They are very different items, so I disagree with the comparison.

2. If you were running the show, how many developer-hours at the associated cost do you propose to use on building a system that doesn't make you any money?

...I've already said that it would be an option that you would have to buy, and that it should cost more than the cost of a few skins.

Having this option is unlikely at best to attract any new players, since it won't be an advertised feature. "Fully customisable characters!", "You can turn off peoples fully customised characters!".

I wouldn't expect it to be an advertised feature, simply something to add a depth of value and control to players.

Raka Maru · 2012-05-07, 04:11 AM

To avoid another wall of text, I'm going to risk being very blunt, so please bear with me. I've read through this whole thread and will just give a real case purchase decision coming from my own head.

Hmm, I have over 23 thousand in station cash waiting for PS2 to go live with the cash shop, glad I bought station cash when it was 3x.

Wow, look at all those cool skins. I'll probably blow this all on customizations!

Wait, there's an option for turning this off.... Hmmm.

Don't think I'll be buying any skins.

*Goes back to playing PS2*

Won't be needing to buy any more station cash for this game.

The Kush · 2012-05-07, 04:31 AM

no you should not be able to turn off customization

Noivad · 2012-05-07, 04:47 AM

WoW - you people sound like a bunch of girls at a fashion show. oh my that purple is too bright, the blue and gold clash with my camo shirt. lol. this is one of the funniest posts yet. Does not matter what color anyone is. SOE has made the Uniforms look different so you can tell even if your color blind. If the person is, the more colorful, the easy he will be to spot and kill. So if you don't like seeing a paticular color on the enemy kill that one first. The you won't have to see him. Besides the NC are nothing but a rag tag collection of rebels. Some of them don't eben have uniforms. And the VS. Why they are the geeks of the game. haven't ya ever seen how geeks dress - OMG - LOL.
Now the TR - well they always look good in Uniform. That red - grey and black is very distinctive. Oh and then don't forget that Outfits will be able to customize their uniforms so you know who you are fighting or fighting alongside. but keep up this entertaining thread its been entertaining. Thanks