Flaws in F2P Design - Page 13

Toppopia · 2012-05-25, 10:56 PM

[QUOTE=p0intman;699677]I need to go get some other stuff done, but a point of perspective would be to look at it with how prohibition went with alcohol. You can't stop it, may as well embrace it.

To stop people multi-boxing or whatever, just get someone to hack your fancy smancy computer and basically destroy it, problem solved, you now won't spend $3000 on a new computer because your old one was destroyed because of being a troll. So all SOE has to do is pay hackers to hack the people doing this annoying stuff and we would all be better off.

KTNApollo · 2012-05-25, 10:58 PM

even though p0intman is arguing a somewhat valid argument, i think people are having more fun attempting to discredit him and derail the thread (I know I am).

p0intman · 2012-05-25, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

Originally Posted by p0intman

I need to go get some other stuff done, but a point of perspective would be to look at it with how prohibition went with alcohol. You can't stop it, may as well embrace it.

To stop people multi-boxing or whatever, just get someone to hack your fancy smancy computer and basically destroy it, problem solved, you now won't spend $3000 on a new computer because your old one was destroyed because of being a troll. So all SOE has to do is pay hackers to hack the people doing this annoying stuff and we would all be better off.

I can take verbal abuse as much as I can dish it out, but the one thing I take offense to are veiled threats like this. You ought to stop, its a bad idea to go where you have.

Originally Posted by KTNApollo

even though p0intman is arguing a somewhat valid argument, i think people are having more fun attempting to discredit him and derail the thread (I know I am).

I don't mind if people try to discredit my argument, like I said in my original post.. I dare you to make the entire thing invalid. I've been thinking about it and going over it almost endlessly in my own head, but when it can stand up to other's counter arguments... it only makes it more valid.

Toppopia · 2012-05-25, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

I can take verbal abuse as much as I can dish it out, but the one thing I take offense to are veiled threats like this. You ought to stop, its a bad idea to go where you have.

I wasn't talking to you specifically, just the people doing annoying stuff, the ones hacking and stuff. And how would blocking doorways with tanks be a problem? Just blow them up. They die in 2-3 shots, so not too much of a problem.
Oh and once the character has run out of resources how will he call in vehicles to call in to block door ways? Won't he now have to fight to get resources which means he has to do quite alot of hardwork to get enough resources to block the door way again just to have his work destroyed in 20 seconds?

Edit: Thats my one comment i will contribute, now back to the discussion.

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-25, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

I can take verbal abuse as much as I can dish it out, but the one thing I take offense to are veiled threats like this. You ought to stop, its a bad idea to go where you have.

Yeah, you need to leave the internet. You are not ready.

p0intman · 2012-05-25, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

I wasn't talking to you specifically, just the people doing annoying stuff, the ones hacking and stuff. And how would blocking doorways with tanks be a problem? Just blow them up. They die in 2-3 shots, so not too much of a problem.
Oh and once the character has run out of resources how will he call in vehicles to call in to block door ways? Won't he now have to fight to get resources which means he has to do quite alot of hardwork to get enough resources to block the door way again just to have his work destroyed in 20 seconds?

Edit: Thats my one comment i will contribute, now back to the discussion.

You may not be easily frustrated, but others very much are. It can take precious little to make some people lose their shit with very little effort. Impeding access to a building is one method of coming to that conclusion where they say, 'FUCK THIS, IM DONE!!!!!' and ragequit.

If done enough, it can very seriously hurt subscriber numbers of other MMOs, and with PS2, it can and will certainly harm populations overall.

For example, the reason that a lot of things aren't possible in World of Warcraft is exactly this, the playerbase is protected from one another because people have short fuses and consider some things you or i might think to be normal, to instead be grief play. So your answer is maybe not what you thought, because you may or may not have a thick skin, but others take stuff like that to be quite offensive to them as players. The method of making someone lose their shit doesn't matter, the method is a tool used to come to that result in the same way that you use a hammer to come to the result of a nail being firmly in the wall. It could be a number of things that do it, some are more obvious than others.

The comment I made about chatspam being a problem? It isn't just broadcast, even the barcode hackers in PS1 used their names for a reason: it was hard to figure out what the name was to report them with and when someone went to do that, it often resulted in allowing them to exist for longer periods of time. It was one of the major flaws of PS1's chat system, and still is one of its major flaws. You don't need to think very hard about ways to make others lose their shit and quit instead of continuing to play. Once you think of every mechanic as a tool and how it can be used with other mechanics, it isn't very hard to think of ways to be evil with them.

Multiple, free accounts are only one tool of a great many, they can and will facilitate such things. If you are half as clever as I am, you are already more capable of griefing people than most.

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Yeah, you need to leave the internet. You are not ready.

Find a fire and jump into it, immediately. You'd be doing the world's IQ levels a favor.

ArbitraryDemise · 2012-05-25, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

You may not be easily frustrated, but others very much are. It can take precious little to make some people lose their shit with very little effort. Impeding access to a building is one method of coming to that conclusion where they say, 'FUCK THIS, IM DONE!!!!!' and ragequit.

If done enough, it can very seriously hurt subscriber numbers of other MMOs, and with PS2, it can and will certainly harm populations overall.

For example, the reason that a lot of things aren't possible in World of Warcraft is exactly this, the playerbase is protected from one another because people have short fuses and consider some things you or i might think to be normal, to instead be grief play. So your answer is maybe not what you thought, because you may or may not have a thick skin, but others take stuff like that to be quite offensive to them as players. The method of making someone lose their shit doesn't matter, the method is a tool used to come to that result in the same way that you use a hammer to come to the result of a nail being firmly in the wall. It could be a number of things that do it, some are more obvious than others.

The comment I made about chatspam being a problem? It isn't just broadcast, even the barcode hackers in PS1 used their names for a reason: it was hard to figure out what the name was to report them with and when someone went to do that, it often resulted in allowing them to exist for longer periods of time. It was one of the major flaws of PS1's chat system, and still is one of its major flaws. You don't need to think very hard about ways to make others lose their shit and quit instead of continuing to play. Once you think of every mechanic as a tool and how it can be used with other mechanics, it isn't very hard to think of ways to be evil with them.

Multiple, free accounts are only one tool of a great many, they can and will facilitate such things. If you are half as clever as I am, you are already more capable of griefing people than most.

Find a fire and jump into it, immediately. You'd be doing the world's IQ levels a favor.

Bud, you're basically running with a: it sucks because people suck sort of argument.

There is no winning here. You are asking why Sony, Higby, and co. have gone with one design decision when all other proposed design methods basically lead to the same problem.

I see this as the best option in the F2P format because it adds a level of factional loyalty to the game, and prevents people from just switching sides in a losing battle so they can be on the winning side.

In my opinion, that is a bigger issue than griefing, spies, and duping. You do not want people in this game to just go: fuck this, I'm out and switch sides to their other characters because they are losing a particular battle. Giving people that option in a game like this makes absolutely no sense when there are over-arching faction goals.

p0intman · 2012-05-25, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by ArbitraryDemise

Bud, you're basically running with a: it sucks because people suck sort of argument.

There is no winning here. You are asking why Sony, Higby, and co. have gone with one design decision when all other proposed design methods basically lead to the same problem.

I see this as the best option in the F2P format because it adds a level of factional loyalty to the game, and prevents people from just switching sides in a losing battle so they can be on the winning side.

In my opinion, that is a bigger issue than griefing, spies, and duping. You do not want people in this game to just go: fuck this, I'm out and switch sides to their other characters because they are losing a particular battle. Giving people that option in a game like this makes absolutely no sense when there are over-arching faction goals.

You don't get it... it doesn't prevent that, at all.

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-25, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Find a fire and jump into it, immediately. You'd be doing the world's IQ levels a favor.

Yeah, you are taking this way to seriously. You need to leave the internet.

ArbitraryDemise · 2012-05-26, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

You don't get it... it doesn't prevent that, at all.

No, because you can NEVER prevent it. It is the same in cyber-security. You can only hope to make it inconvenient enough that a hacker just doesn't want to put the effort into breaking your security.

Same thing here.

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Yeah, you are taking this way to seriously. You need to leave the internet.

Dude, your eyes could be replaced with lenses and lightbulbs while pointing you at a wall and you'd be great to use as a movie projector.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

You clearly think something that isn't the case. You may want to stop acting as if you know me.

TrenchcoatNinja · 2012-05-26, 12:13 AM

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-26, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Dude, your eyes could be replaced with lenses and lightbulbs while pointing you at a wall and you'd be great to use as a movie projector.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

You clearly think something that isn't the case.

Originally Posted by Toppopia

To stop people multi-boxing or whatever, just get someone to hack your fancy smancy computer and basically destroy it, problem solved, you now won't spend $3000 on a new computer because your old one was destroyed because of being a troll. So all SOE has to do is pay hackers to hack the people doing this annoying stuff and we would all be better off.

Originally Posted by p0intman

I can take verbal abuse as much as I can dish it out, but the one thing I take offense to are veiled threats like this. You ought to stop, its a bad idea to go where you have.

You took a suggestion that agreed with your point, and took it as a threat against your person. Didn't even apologize for it. This comes after calling out Higby for attention and getting shut down, and never bothered to apologize for that.

Yeah, you need to leave the internet. You've fulfilled your quota for the year.

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

You took a suggestion that agreed with your point, and took it as a threat against your person. Didn't even apologize for it. This comes after calling out Higby for attention and getting shut down, and never bothered to apologize for that.

Yeah, you need to leave the internet. You've fulfilled your quota for the year.

You very clearly don't see the problem with that comment then. It doesnt matter who it was directed at, I find the notion of suggesting physical or digital harm come to anyone's property as a result of doing something others disagree with to be atrocious and morally bankrupt.

Its a line I don't cross and refuse to cross, despite the fact that hackers ingame frustrate the shit out of me. If you don't see how its wrong, you may want to re-examine your opinion.

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-26, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

You very clearly don't see the problem with that comment then. It doesnt matter who it was directed at, I find the notion of suggesting physical or digital harm come to anyone's property as a result of doing something others disagree with to be atrocious and morally bankrupt.

There was nothing wrong with that comment. It was a joke. You are taking things too seriously and being too defensive over little shit.

If you continue to post this stuff you will say something stupider than you already have and get yourself banned.

You need to leave the internet. You are not ready. It's for your own good.