New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

It was locked because no one really cared for BFRs. The point of this thread isn't about BFRs. If you had read that and not bumped it indiscriminately you would have realized that.

The original point of this thread was addressing the problems with a BFR while still keeping the fun that the idea of a mech chassis could be used for without bringing up the flawed designs of a multi-manned vehicle.

The whole concept is drastically different from the usage of a tank that comparing the two is kind of pointless. It's like comparing a Reaver to a tank essentially which was an example use previously to differentiate what this mech would function like. (Ground based Reaver).

What utter crap, you have proposed a BFR. You want to call it a mech but this isn't mech warrior its planetside.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

What utter crap, you have proposed a BFR. You want to call it a mech but this isn't mech warrior its planetside.

Planetside, the science-fiction game. Oddly enough the mech chassis has existed in a lot of sci-fi games not just the mech warrior series. That's just what most people remember them from. BF2142 had one.

I don't really see how I proposed a BFR. A BFR had a nearly invulnerable shield, tons of armor, and the ability to fly with the flying variant. I proposed a medium sized one person vehicle that could be customized with the ability to use a momentary shield or small jump jets. It wouldn't require close ranged attacks and would be damaged from AV weapons allowing a skilled AV user to disable components from afar.

I completely understand not liking the mech chassis though. It's kind of a hit or miss with most people. Having a customizable lightning seems a lot more appealing it seems from the idea thread on that topic.

[Accuser]

Lightnings are right where they need to be for one person vehicles. But they are also VERY difficult to both control and fire from (usually when my MBT rolls up to one, it will shoot at us while driving headlong into a tree). That said, anything functioning as an easy-to-drive, easy-to-shoot MAX vehicle should have LESS armor/weaponry than a Lightning. Otherwise, why would I bother trying to coordinate my gunning with a driver when I can just pull my personal "go where I like, shoot what I want" SuperMAX? And why would the driver of a MBT, with limited or no firepower at his fingertips, rely on a gunner to get BEP for him when he can pull his SuperMAX?

Personally, I like the aesthetic of the tank better than the mech chassis for a 2-man vehicle anyway. However, I'd be ALL for implementing a higher-cert Heavy Battle Tank design that has superior stats to the MBT.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Accuser

That said, anything functioning as an easy-to-drive, easy-to-shoot MAX vehicle should have LESS armor/weaponry than a Lightning.

That part I covered with the component based damage when I said it would have twice the amount of armor as a lightning. The idea being it would be easy to immobilize part but hard to keep from retreating. Basically to stop it would take 5 rounds from a tank but to offset the slow moving it would have armor that allowed it to retreat.

Originally Posted by Accuser

Otherwise, why would I bother trying to coordinate my gunning with a driver when I can just pull my personal "go where I like, shoot what I want" SuperMAX? And why would the driver of a MBT, with limited or no firepower at his fingertips, rely on a gunner to get BEP for him when he can pull his SuperMAX?

Range. A MBT would within a few shots eat into the components. Could 2 of them working together try to take on a tank? A vanguard took something like 5 shots to kill a lightning. At that point on the proposed mech it would have damaged weapons and be retreating for repairs. Unless they were in the forest and got the jump maybe on a tank. They'd be medium range fighters ideally.

Regarding the role overlap that was explained before. Different AV weapons and the MAX has the advantage of going indoors and fighting other MAX units.

Originally Posted by Accuser

Personally, I like the aesthetic of the tank better than the mech chassis for a 2-man vehicle anyway. However, I'd be ALL for implementing a higher-cert Heavy Battle Tank design that has superior stats to the MBT.

Yeah I prefer the tank being the only heavy hitting AV vehicle. Watching one role into the battle fighting other MBTs is nice.

[Tycho]

Your idea of a "Mech" in Planetside is not going to gain traction with the current player population. It conjures to many bad memories of BFR's when they were first released which was a contributing factor to the decline of the game. We will be better off waiting to see what the cert tree will look like with MAXes in PS2. Its possible this will satisfy your "Mech" need.

I would like to see a Heavy Tank which is what we asked for years ago in 2004. I personally dont like BFRs and am very happy that they will not make a return in PS2.

[zuesrocks]

Originally Posted by Tycho

Your idea of a "Mech" in Planetside is not going to gain traction with the current player population. It conjures to many bad memories of BFR's when they were first released which was a contributing factor to the decline of the game. We will be better off waiting to see what the cert tree will look like with MAXes in PS2. Its possible this will satisfy your "Mech" need.

I would like to see a Heavy Tank which is what we asked for years ago in 2004. I personally dont like BFRs and am very happy that they will not make a return in PS2.

agreeded,doesnt matter how you put it op you want bfs in ps2,and it wont happen ever,its been confirmed,and im glade bfs will never be in ps2

[Kouza]

Good luck with this. lol

[MasterChief096]

The poll speaks for itself. The current people on this board and the ones keeping up with PlanetSide 2 news do not want BFRs, mechs, or any alteration of those two terms.

Now that might change when PlanetSide 2 launches and the number of PS2 players exceeds the number of PlanetSide 1 veterans that came back for PS2. But I still highly doubt there are going to be mechs.

[Geist]

Not gonna read through 14 pages of responses, so sorry if this has been posted before, but what if they just replaced the Lightning with this bipedal mech? Same armor, more customizability, and better handling(The lightning was horrible to drive), it would make an excellent solo vehicles.

Another possibility is that is just an outdoor MAX and can be one of the skills on the MAX skill tree.

[Captain B]

I thought BFRs were cool as an idea, but they should not have been able to jump and fly and all that crap, and they were WAY too powerful. If they were slightly stronger than a tank and had a lot of damage output, as well as couldn't jump and fly and crap, sure. I mean, why not? They're huge and will soak up tons of damage quick. But all them missiles and rockets and arty just didn't do anything before they said "We done, bai," and left to repair.

[Sirisian]

Hello mech thread. We meet again.

Originally Posted by Spectre

Not gonna read through 14 pages of responses

I'd recommend it. Most points have been brought up. The original post sums up a lot of my views which I've expanded upon in other posts. However, it's important to keep in mind that a lot of people haven't read the original post so they're not really sure what this idea was about.

Case in point:

Originally Posted by Captain B

I thought BFRs were cool as an idea, but they should not have been able to jump and fly and all that crap, and they were WAY too powerful. If they were slightly stronger than a tank and had a lot of damage output, as well as couldn't jump and fly and crap, sure. I mean, why not? They're huge and will soak up tons of damage quick. But all them missiles and rockets and arty just didn't do anything before they said "We done, bai," and left to repair.

The flaws of the BFR were already expanded upon in earlier posts. The original post focuses on creating a design that's balanced. They don't need to be stronger than a tank, nor have equal fire power to be useful. They just need to focus on maneuverability.

I've went into depth into this in many threads. If a tank fires a round at a mech it can at a certain range strafe to dodge the round. Same idea between dumb-fire AV rounds from range. The idea being that if you do hit one its components it's going to take be a critical disadvantage increasing the skill of AV users and pilots.

I digress. If you're fix for the BFRs is to make them have more armor and damage output than a tank you're going the wrong direction.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I digress. If you're fix for the BFRs is to make them have more armor and damage output than a tank you're going the wrong direction.

This makes a lot of sense. It works in Mech Warrior, but only because that's a game all about giant mechs fighting other giant mechs.

It doesn't even make sense if you think about it. Why would a mech with a ton of moving parts and a lot of exposed surface area have more armor than a turtle shell of a tank?

Maneuverability is where it's at. Out door MAX suits is the way to go if they do this.

Higby has mentioned an interest in revisiting the BFR idea from a better angle, hopefully this is the direction they go in if they do it.

I don't think a bigger MAX suit would ruin the game if it were properly implemented. Just don't call it a BFR, too much bad stigma.

[Jimmuc]

whats the opinion on walker vehicles? something akin to an AT-ST or Sentinel (SW and WH40K respectively)

[Graywolves]

I want an AT-ST or a Speederbike


Mostly speederbike

[NapalmEnima]

Upright walkers are simply inferior to tanks.

For a given volume, they're taller, have more surface area, and must use a great deal of that volume for articulation that isn't present in a tank.

Given the same level of technology, tanks will win every time.

The reason it works in anime is all the Uber Tech is in the mechs, while the tanks are left in the dark ages.

Give a tank the same power plant, armor type, weaponry, and thrusters, and you end up with a Much More Dangerous vehicle. At least as maneuverable, durable, and well armed... and with more space/weight to devote to such things not taken up by all the articulation? More weapons, more armor, and/or more maneuverability.

Articulation can be genuinely useful in one particular setting. You can change your lift/drag. You can change how much space you need to be stored in. Tomcats have mobile wings for a reason. Carrier planes have had wings that can fold up for storage since WWII. The V22-Osprey won its contract for a reason.

Okay, now advance into the future a century or five, and make force fields a Real Thing. Now to change your flight characteristics, all you need to do is reshape your force field.

Check out this article on ion wind. We can push air around now with nothing but electricity, albeit in limited ways. Tack on a couple hundred years of technological progress and its quite reasonable to think that you'd be able to drastically alter the flight characteristics of just about anything without physically altering its shape.

Really big mechs are dumb.

MAX-size "mechs" are great. It's a big pile of extra armor, weaponry, and beans-n-bullets wrapped around an infantryman, with the ability to go just about anywhere a person can go, and often to places they cannot at speeds they cannot (thrusters/wheels). They can bring air into a vacuum or under water. They can protect the wearer from deadly environments.

Oh, tunnel crawls where you literally have to crawl might not be such a hot idea, but just about anything else? MAXes can be great. DARPA has a number of contracts floating around now to do precisely that. They might not bear fruit for a decade or two, but the seeds are in the ground.

Actually the HULC project is pretty close to something that could be used in the field. Letting someone carry 80 lbs on their back without noticeable effort isn't all that far from "let someone carry an EXTRA 80 lbs of weapons, armor, beans, and bullets".

For reference, a SAW w/1000 rounds of ammo weighs roughly 50 lbs. The latest military body armor, the "Modular Tactical Vest" + "Lightweight Helmet" is just over 36 pounds.

Wow... getting far afield here.


Anyway: Big Walking Tanks < Real Tanks.