Dont think the HA should be able to fly.

[Nick]

In all my agile loadouts I have a Decimator so that kind of makes your point invalid. Also, Rexos in PS1 could carry a whole bunch of stuff. There is no inventories in PS2, just a set amount of things you can do. So there is no imbalance in PS2 regarding HA flying vehicles. Only MAXs, for obvious reasons.

Please calm down OP.

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by MrKWalmsley

No, the fact is it is not a case of me not wanting to be shot down by heavy assaults, its a case of me not wanting to be shot down by the guy I just blew out of the sky and bested in combat, who is now safely on the floor, in amongst cover, with his anti-air weapon at the ready, and I would not want myself to be able to do it either.

So it's okay as long as they are shooting someone else? Because that is basically what all the other people will do, and probably some HAs as well, they'll use their "second life" via ejection to pick a valid target and try and make it explode, whether that's your aircraft, some other craft, a tank, or a character's head.

I will grant that in a given situation, the only guaranteed target to exist is whoever shot you down, but for the most part that won't be a problem, and if you are seriously the only one in the area nothing stops you from simply leaving using your superior speed, or at least getting to a more open area where it is easier to take on infantry.

I can understand you don't want to have to keep fighting someone after you shot down their aircraft, you want to have a greater feeling of victory, but the reality is that you didn't beat them, you only shot down their vehicle, and whether they are HA or not they are still a threat to you and your forces even if indirectly.

As far as delays go... It does take a (small) while for people to land after bailing with an ejection seat from what I've seen, and so far the only AV that HA has is the missile launcher, and that takes time to lock on, and probably can't while falling.

For now, at least wait until you see how everything works in beta before trying to solve something that is very likely not even a real problem.

[MrKWalmsley]

Very well, I'll suspend judgement until beta, if I ever get in.

[Khrakhan]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

So it's okay as long as they are shooting someone else? Because that is basically what all the other people will do, and probably some HAs as well, they'll use their "second life" via ejection to pick a valid target and try and make it explode, whether that's your aircraft, some other craft, a tank, or a character's head.

I will grant that in a given situation, the only guaranteed target to exist is whoever shot you down, but for the most part that won't be a problem, and if you are seriously the only one in the area nothing stops you from simply leaving using your superior speed, or at least getting to a more open area where it is easier to take on infantry.

I can understand you don't want to have to keep fighting someone after you shot down their aircraft, you want to have a greater feeling of victory, but the reality is that you didn't beat them, you only shot down their vehicle, and whether they are HA or not they are still a threat to you and your forces even if indirectly.

As far as delays go... It does take a (small) while for people to land after bailing with an ejection seat from what I've seen, and so far the only AV that HA has is the missile launcher, and that takes time to lock on, and probably can't while falling.

For now, at least wait until you see how everything works in beta before trying to solve something that is very likely not even a real problem.

+rep

This site have any form of a rep system?

Either way, a nice and precise post, thanks.

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by MrKWalmsley

Very well, I'll suspend judgement until beta, if I ever get in.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't have an open beta at least late into it. Regardless, I'm sure we'll be able to see reports (and probably footage) from the beta and be able to comment on it into Live if necessary.

In between now and then, good luck, I hope we're both able to get into the beta and that it starts fairly soon.

[captainkapautz]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but is it just me or is the HA really bland at the moment?

You get HA and AV, and that's pretty much it. No support ability or anything actually worth bringing for a team.

Shield only makes for a poor mans MAX and AV can easily been taken care of by either a MAX, an LA with C4 nades or even an Engineer with an AV-Turret.

If you add the vehiclerestrictions from PS1, then I just don't see the point why I'd take a HA over another Engineer/Medic/MAX.

[MCYRook]

Originally Posted by AzK

I don't think weapons (or any equipment for that matter) should be class restricted to be honest, with maxes being the only exception.
Classes were a bad idea to begin with. Less bf3, more ps please.

Ohai, it's Azk.

@topic: Wait For Beta.

There are too many differences to really compare this situation to old PS1. PS1 Agile dropper can bring HA+AV, PS2 Light dropper cannot. PS1 Rexo can bring his own rep and med tool and a ton of ammo, PS2 Heavy cannot. It's not as simple as "oh no, in PS2 we'll basically have Rexo hotdroppers!!" It's even possible that a PS2 Heavy on your tower will be less dangerous than a PS1 HA Agile. Especially if he doesn't warp.

Most importantly, we don't know how TTK of Heavy and Light will fare against each other, and without knowing just how much of a difference that makes, you can't jump to any conclusions.

[Ratstomper]

As someone who still plays PS1, the armor restriction for certain vehicles is a pain in the ass. I'll be glad to see it go.

Let all infantry cept MAX units use all vehicles, imo. It's a good idea.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by MrKWalmsley

Them doing it while falling is not the main issue, Since the fall time will not be longer than the lock on time. It's the fact that you just bested an enemy in a dog-fight, but now they're going to bail out, and as soon as they land safely get a lock on and take you down. Mid-air locking really is not the problem here because the time spent falling is negligible.

An alternative I could see is as you said not allowing them to lock on while falling, but also stop them from using it for like 10 seconds after landing. But then there is still the problem that if the area the person got shot down in is a particularly busy dogfight, the aircraft will not likely have tried to run out of lock on range, and so will still be littering the air.

A few points:

1) The HA AV weapon wasn't a very good AA weapon in E3. Obviously this could change, but for the time being, we've seen a Reaver kill a AV user before dying, and we've seen tons of fighters afterburn to safety. As far as the information we currently know, a HA isn't going to bail out of his aircraft and be killing the person who shot them down, unless the enemy pilot is a complete moron.

2) Destroying vehicles gives you credit now. If they bail out, you still get xp for blowing up the vehicle and credit for a vehicle destruction. Their bailure will probably just give you a chance to get some extra experience for killing them as infantry as well. If the area is too hot and you gotta make a run for it, at least you still got your main reward.

3) HA will simply not be an optimal pilot/bailer. If they give up flares for an ejector seat, it will be easier to shoot them down in the first place. If they take flares and try to bail without an ejector seat, they will probably die or hit the ground severely wounded. If fall damage is still too little by the time beta arrives, then that's an area that will need to be addressed, because otherwise bailing modules will be pretty worthless, so I believe it's a safe assumption that for balance reasons, a lack of ejector seat will make bailing very deadly for people in most situations unless they are LA.

Based on what we currently know, HA will be a very mediocre pilot class, and LA will be an awesome pilot class.

As I've stated before, if we end up with a ton of HA just using bailing to get into a fight quicker, that's a problem with bailing vs Galaxy dropping, not a problem with HA flying fighters vs other classes flying fighters.

HA will be a class that will be well balanced against LA and Infiltrators and the rest. It will have tradeoffs, strengths and weaknesses. Due to this fact, it will be no more or less overpowered or underpowered as a pilot than any other class (minus MAXes).

If you find yourself in a hot situation and the pilot of the aircraft you were about to shoot down bails out as a HA and tries to lock on to you, just laugh at him for being a fail pilot and afterburn away. You still got your vehicle kill, and he is still a failure as a human being.

[Baron]

From my earlier post...

It doesn't matter that a HA pilot will sacrifice flares for a bailing mechanism, of course they will and they won't care about flares. They are interested in neither air-to-air nor air-to-ground combat. They will use the plane as quick transport only to bail over the desired target area. They do not care about flares as they can safely just afterburn to location and then bail.

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

This happened constantly in PS1 ... if you needed to get to a base quickly for a re-secure, your team pulled mossies, not a galaxy.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Baron

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

Assuming you're willing to waste the resources for it.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Assuming you're willing to waste the resources for it.

That's another point in a previous post in this same thread. I think the type of person who is whoring for K/D by bailing with HA will not care about empire resources

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Baron

That's another point in a previous post in this same thread. I think the type of person who is whoring for K/D by bailing with HA will not care about empire resources

Last I heard resources were divided amongst the players. He'll be using his own stash, not the empires.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Baron

From my earlier post...

It doesn't matter that a HA pilot will sacrifice flares for a bailing mechanism, of course they will and they won't care about flares. They are interested in neither air-to-air nor air-to-ground combat. They will use the plane as quick transport only to bail over the desired target area. They do not care about flares as they can safely just afterburn to location and then bail.

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

This happened constantly in PS1 ... if you needed to get to a base quickly for a re-secure, your team pulled mossies, not a galaxy.

Right but here is what you are missing. LA will be as valuable in infantry combat as HA. Maybe not always in the same situations, but it won't be a clear upgrade from Agile to Rexo like in the first game.

So if HA is overpowered by being able to fly/bail, then every class will be.

Bailing from a fighter vs Galaxy dropping is a totally different discussion. It's an important one, and I want them to get it right, but it has nothing to do with HA.

We saw people bailing in agile all over the place in PS1. Agile was clearly an inferior armor in pretty much every way, yet people still took it just so that they could bail instead of wait for a Galaxy. HA won't be a clear upgrade over LA this time, since both will have strengths and weaknesses that the other can't match. Restricting HA from flying as some sort of band aid solution to prevent bailing instead of Gal dropping is not going to work. You will just end up with a bunch of LA or other classes doing the bailing instead of HA.

Sure the LA won't have heavy assault weapons this time around, but TTK's are faster and jump jets are going to more than make up for that loss, so it will be no more or less imbalanced if HA and LA can bail from fighters or if only LA can.

[Baron]

I understand the point you are making however in PS1 ...not being able to pilot as HA emphasized more of a meaning for a galaxy. As it stands now in PS2, the only benefit of bringing a galaxy would be 2 max units.

I think the system was fair in PS1: Rexo could pilot only open canopy type of vehicles (harasser, atv, skyguard, buggy)