Driver/Gunners... NO! - Page 14

GrayWave · 2012-07-10, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by fod

i think this idea of driving and gunning is a stupid idea, i cant see any negatives in having separate driver/gunner at all
all i do in ps1 is drive - its what i find fun and now im starting to rethink if i even want to concentrate on vehicles in ps2 like i did in ps1

Here's a thought: perhaps instead of pouting, you can accept that it's not your ideal system and adapt to it anyway? We can't get everything we want, and certainly not in video games.

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-07-10, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Vanir

PlanetSide 2 Community Interview with Matt Higby - YouTube
Go to time index 15:35 on the video to hear the most recent thing that Higby has said about tank drivers controlling the main cannon.

Personally I'm in favor of an optional cert that will unlock an optional main gunner seat in the tank will give the driver the option of giving control of the main cannon to another player. Thus allowing up to 3 people in the tank. The driver, the main gunner, and the secondary gunner.

Thanks for the post. That does provide a lot of additional information. I still don't agree with the decision, but it might not be so bad as he described. Although, AGAIN, I don't see why everybody is worried about "how the Mag fits in"... They don't ALL have to be the same. It can be different in some way! He can move sideways and doesn't care about terrain so much, it's not like he's out in the cold.

CorvicM · 2012-07-10, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Vanir

snip

Go to time index 15:35 on the video to hear the most recent thing that Higby has said about tank drivers controlling the main cannon.

Personally I'm in favor of an optional cert that will unlock an optional main gunner seat in the tank will give the driver the option of giving control of the main cannon to another player. Thus allowing up to 3 people in the tank. The driver, the main gunner, and the secondary gunner.

i agree with you here that would solve my problems by just letting a third person in the vehicle as a cert which removes your control of the gun.

Soothsayer · 2012-07-10, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by CorvicM

i agree with you here that would solve my problems by just letting a third person in the vehicle as a cert which removes your control of the gun.

Third person in a MBT wasn't good in PS1. Two people including driver was the better way unless you are adding a third person's worth of firepower to the setup. People shouldn't be penalized for operating within the role of the vehicle, the MBT being that of a two person crewed tank that chews through whatever it has turrets slotted for.

I'm going to keep repeating the stuff lots of people have said here, it doesn't have to be one or the other. It can easily be both.

Stew · 2012-07-10, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by KaB

I'm glad not everyone uses such constructive arguments...

I did not try to go to specifics because this all debate have been made over and over and iam kinda sick of the (( please copy and paste planetside 1 or a quit )) ! Its silly and out off sens

Also the secondary gunners in planetside 2 has many options that was NOT in planetside 1 like having AI,AA,AV weapons as secondary gunners these things do not exist in planetside 1 so its a huge improovement also they have allow people to not be compleatly useless in a vanguard if their is no ones to shoot for ya

It will be always better to have a secondary gunners it can be for AA suport or Ai suport or AV suports but it will always be a benefits to run a vanguard with 2 players instead of one

I hope this answer your questions and i can be even more specifics if you want a 3 pages of textes

Raymac · 2012-07-11, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Not my fault you can't see how the game mechanics are being skewed that way.

1: Bases are now very open, most observable control points within splash damage range of most vehicles, infact vehicles can drive 'inside' most structures. There are a TON more structures populating the map now than there were in PS1.
2: Most bases have very little cover from air attacks. Wrong. The walls have ceilings and the bases have buildings scattered all around. They just got rid of the stupid repetative corridors and stairwells.
2: Infantry now require (forced) medic 'support'. I'm glad to see the able-to-carry-everything-1-man-armies disappear. It made the loadout options a false choice. Every grunt carried HA/AV/Med/Eng. I'm glad they are giving us real options now.
3: Most POWERFUL ground vehicles now only need ONE person to be effective, instead of 2 as before. Actually the tanks have 2 seats, so while they CAN be used solo, they will be far more effective with 2. You guys can't keep ignoring the 2nd seat.
4: Only MAX class restricted from using vehicles, RExo aka HA was previously heavily restricted. I'd actually agree with you here that I'd prefer if HA was limited to ATVs.
5: Plethora of 'certs' designed to enhance vehicle survivabilty and self sufficiency, viz auto repair. I thought having a ton of certs and near endless progression was a great addition since they first mentioned it a year ago. The devs know making things too OP will severely damage the game, which is why they state repeatedly that they will limit the power of these sidegrades. Trying to twist that into a negative just sounds silly.

All the things I've seen in game point to them making it harder for someone to just go around footzerging should they wish to and far easier to just hop into ANY of the vehicles and just spam spam spam and then hop out and be just as effective as the guy that wants to play as Infantry, whilst having no drawbacks for certing into the vehicle side. Have you seen the terrain? That can majorly limit vehicles effectiveness, and do so in a natural, non-contrived way. And really? Oh noes, massive vehicle battles? Sorry, that "complaint" doesn't work for me.

**
No, I'm saying they're not being consistent in making Infantry now REQUIRE teamwork to function effectively, whilst making things even EASIER for Vehicle users. There is no downside to using a vehicle, none what-so-fucking-ever. Yes there is a downside. See terrain. Also, Planetside 1 taught us that they did need to make things easier for vehicle users, that's why they added things like the Loadstar

It's like they saw the 'super-soldier' problem, redesigned bases to solve that problem (ie corridor spam fests, all control points well inside), then nerfed everything else intrinsic to that actual gameplay, whilst simultaneously giving a bunch of bonuses to vehicle users above and beyond the redesign of bases and make the most powerful of them not even require the annoyance of needing a second person to use them! Clearly we are viewing the maps, terrain, and bases VASTLY differently. I disagree with your premises so much that I'm just going to leave it at this.

Originally Posted by Soothsayer

You've got no idea how fun I find a really intense prowler run, if you join the right outfit you don't have trouble finding gunners and you find people who are reliable that play in sync with your style of driving.

Absolutely, people in outfits don't have problems finding gunners. I was talking about the more casual player that will jump in and jump out of the game, and only play for short periods of time. I don't think the game should deny them the ability to effectively play with a fundamental aspect of the game as PS1 did. Basically, I think it makes it considerably more fun for them and they should be allowed to have that fun. We can't forget about them because those players are not here on the forums disecting over a dozen pages of discussion about minor parts of the game. But as players, they will be the very lifeblood of the game. I have been on PS1 when I was one of less than 20 NC online on the entire server. I don't want that to happen to PS2. Let them have fun with the big tanks for goodness sake. It's not like these things are BFRs.

Stardouser · 2012-07-11, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by RadarX

I believe Matt Higby has addressed this a few times. While the potential for gunners in certain vehicles is a possibility, many vehicles will have the driver as the gunner. This is the design system the dev team has chosen to utilize at this time.

Perhaps I have missed something that has been said by Matt Higby recently, but the last thing I remember on this topic is that the possibility existed of a cert that would allow tanks to have a dedicated gunner. Your post has a very tangible tone of finality to it, does this mean that such a cert is no longer being considered?

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-07-11, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Perhaps I have missed something that has been said by Matt Higby recently, but the last thing I remember on this topic is that the possibility existed of a cert that would allow tanks to have a dedicated gunner. Your post has a very tangible tone of finality to it, does this mean that such a cert is no longer being considered?

No, it was mentioned in the video posted just a page or so ago. They are strongly considering (if it isn't in already) a cert to allow delegation of roles.

Stardouser · 2012-07-11, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

No, it was mentioned in the video posted just a page or so ago. They are strongly considering (if it isn't in already) a cert to allow delegation of roles.

You mean the interview with Hamma? That's over a month old, they could have changed their mind since then.

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-07-11, 12:28 AM

Yeah, but I've not seen anything to indicate it's different now. If we want to start arguing about things that might or might not be just because we haven't heard anything about them since the LAST time we heard about them, we'll REALLY get side tracked

-edit

That's Higby, the PS2 project lead, or whatever he's called. Hamma runs the PSU forums.

Soothsayer · 2012-07-11, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

Absolutely, people in outfits don't have problems finding gunners. I was talking about the more casual player that will jump in and jump out of the game, and only play for short periods of time. I don't think the game should deny them the ability to effectively play with a fundamental aspect of the game as PS1 did. Basically, I think it makes it considerably more fun for them and they should be allowed to have that fun. We can't forget about them because those players are not here on the forums disecting over a dozen pages of discussion about minor parts of the game. But as players, they will be the very lifeblood of the game. I have been on PS1 when I was one of less than 20 NC online on the entire server. I don't want that to happen to PS2. Let them have fun with the big tanks for goodness sake. It's not like these things are BFRs.

But... But.. But... if there is the ability to have it either way (driver is primary gunner or gunner is primary gunner what is the problem there? This is what has been said.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-07-11, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

1:There are a TON more structures populating the map now than there were in PS1.
Yeah and most of them have small footprints with multiple exits that can just be vehicle spammed
2: Wrong. The walls have ceilings and the bases have buildings scattered all around. They just got rid of the stupid repetative corridors and stairwells. Yes there are fire 'slits' for infantry to shoot out, but you see low ceilings which are perfect for tanks to shoot UP and deal AoE damage anyway. You also have no way to take out air above you
2: I'm glad to see the able-to-carry-everything-1-man-armies disappear. It made the loadout options a false choice. Every grunt carried HA/AV/Med/Eng. I'm glad they are giving us real options now.
Yet you have no problem with someone in a vehicle being able to do everything someone else on foot can, without even having to re-equip?
3: Actually the tanks have 2 seats, so while they CAN be used solo, they will be far more effective with 2. You guys can't keep ignoring the 2nd seat. Yes, the 2nd seat for the SECONDARY WEAPONS, not the fucking PRIMARY WEAPON
4: I'd actually agree with you here that I'd prefer if HA was limited to ATVs.
5: I thought having a ton of certs and near endless progression was a great addition since they first mentioned it a year ago. The devs know making things too OP will severely damage the game, which is why they state repeatedly that they will limit the power of these sidegrades. Trying to twist that into a negative just sounds silly.
It's exactly the same thing as BR40

Have you seen the terrain? That can majorly limit vehicles effectiveness, and do so in a natural, non-contrived way. And really? Oh noes, massive vehicle battles? Sorry, that "complaint" doesn't work for me. Sigh, that's the whole fucking point, there is barely any distinction between outdoor and indoor fights now, you can roll up your tank RIGHT TO A CONSOLE ROOM, hop out and hack it 5 seconds later

Yes there is a downside. See terrain. Also, Planetside 1 taught us that they did need to make things easier for vehicle users, that's why they added things like the Loadstar
The only vehicles that had it hard were the light ones and then MBTs after BFRs, airchavs had airtowers 30 seconds away.

1234

Stardouser · 2012-07-11, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

Yeah, but I've not seen anything to indicate it's different now. If we want to start arguing about things that might or might not be just because we haven't heard anything about them since the LAST time we heard about them, we'll REALLY get side tracked

-edit

That's Higby, the PS2 project lead, or whatever he's called. Hamma runs the PSU forums.

Yes, I know who they are. This isn't a random neurotic inquiry from nowhere where I think it might have changed, Radarx's comment suggests something has changed and they forget to tell us. His words were rather final sounding.

shadar · 2012-07-11, 01:24 AM

[QUOTE=Aberdash;777590]Making things harder just to make things harder is not good design.QUOTE]

lol what do you call dark souls then

Enzo · 2012-07-11, 02:28 AM

I always found it annoying in Planetside 1 when I had to find some random stranger to tag along with if I wanted to drive a main tank. As a person who likes to lone-wolf every now and then, I'm happy about this change.

For those that try to compare real life tanks to video games, please don't. WASD isn't nearly as complicated as driving an actual tank and I can drive+gun perfectly fine in games like Battlefield. In fact, I find that having a separate driver and gunner makes it more complicated especially if the players are not communicating over voip. "Gunner, there's a guy with a rocket right in front of us! Gunner! Ahhhhh *BOOM*"