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2012-12-21, 02:36 PM | [Ignore Me] #211 | |||
Contributor Major
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The trouble isn't the large groups, but how they use the game to achieve the easiest route to "victory", ie. Death travel, vehicle spam, and superior numbers rather than superior skill. The stuff in this thread is why I don't play - the game is boring in a zergfit and boring not in one, so why bother doing more than logging in to shoot stuff and blow stuff when the mood strikes? Fix these issues (and the performance issues, as beta played smoother...) and PS2 will be worth playing. Right now there's just no point nor any variety to the game. |
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2012-12-21, 02:45 PM | [Ignore Me] #212 | ||
Private
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Large outfits will have issues if/when they start having outfit leaderboards.
When it happens, the game needs alliance level organizations to allow for outfits with different play styles to easily form up when they have to. |
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2012-12-21, 02:53 PM | [Ignore Me] #213 | ||
Private
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To answer the original question of the thread: No. Larger outfits do not hurt the game.
If a large outfit exists, it is because players enjoy being a part of something greater than themselves and that outfit is clearly doing something right to be recruiting so many people. That being said, I'd like to address something that has been mentioned before but I would like to reiterate again on this thread: Planetside 2 tactics are a joke. There I said it. Planetside 2 tactics are 110% a complete and utter piece of crap. In a larger outfit, I can tell you those leaders always send air, armor and infantry together or rolling close together. Does this make them a zerg rush? It's debatable. I've heard both sides of the argument so many times I can tell you it largely depends on the situation. When you've got 1 infantry platoon with an armor platoon and air squads all on small outpost, I'd call that a zerg rush. However, because some of the outfits are more organized, they can redeploy in a pinch to attack an enemy force of equal-greater numbers. However, the point still remains that the sure, guaranteed 100% fool proof way to win is overwhelming numbers. There's simply no counter to numbers and I do not believe that should EVER be any counter to being over-run with enemies. What there needs to be is more secondary objectives, as mentioned before, for smaller outfits or squads. I'm not exactly sure how these secondary objectives play into the overall meta-game, but it's something that is desperately needed in the game right now. |
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2012-12-21, 03:09 PM | [Ignore Me] #214 | |||||||||||
Major
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Indeed, give us more, I HAVE COOKIES!!!
The taking and denial of Resources should have been a major component of Continental Strategic planning, but right now Resource Income is just another measuring stick for how well your Faction is doing on a particular Continent. Your average player doesn't care about them outside of how much of a particular Resource they need, just their characters personal advancement... Since the fastest way to advance characters is through Certification Points earned through Experience and the fastest way to gain Experience Points is with Base Captures, it's no wonder people rush to capture a Continent only to immediately abandon it. ...Perhaps Auraxium should make a comeback, not as a set Resource but as as an In-game Currency rewarded overall for how well your faction is doing?
You can't slow down because there are few places you can actually entrench without getting steamrolled by a Vehicle rush. Those few places you CAN dig in (Jaeger's Crossing, Scarred Mesa Skydock, The... Crown, Raven's Landing) provide EPIC fights, probably specifically because the long fights force groups of strangers to form a Brotherhood in Arms! The rest suffer from poor spawn design and base layout. Take what should be an Epic base to fight at, Auraxis Firearm's Corp on Amerish. It's very clear that the majority of an attacking force is suppose to be funnelled into the bottleneck that is the bridge, ground vehicles duking it out while Infantry try to creep their way up, until finally they've made their way to the Courtyard of the Base to cut off the Spawn off from the Control Point. Aerial control, mostly provided by Raven's Landing, would help by allowing one side to suppress the Vehicle flow of the other... ...The problem is, the cookie-cutter spawn building is SO exposed that Air-to-Ground can easily keep it suppress on its own and Raven's Landing just doesn't have enough Anti-Air turrets to deter an Air-Rush! You end up not even needing a Ground fight, just one guy to land and cap the point. To fix this, Raven's Landing should get more AA Phalanxes (to greater its importance in Capturing Auraxis Firearm's Corp), Auraxis Firearm's Corp should probably get one or two itself (just to provide some innate means of air denial), and there needs to be MORE OVER HEAD COVER, particularly leading out of the Spawn to the Vehicle Terminal and subsequently the Control Point (It also needs a large number of Spear Phalanxes, particularly at each end of the bridge, but at least one on each corner of the plateau to deter Light Assault AMS Sunderer Rushes).
...Still, that is a rather interesting idea for asymmetrical balance.
...You don't know how happy I was to see Howling Pass Checkpoint be put in or Quartz Ridge be made into a serviceable base.
Most of my insight comes from the Second Life Military Community... so I have WAY more patience when it comes to fixing things like bad spawns, since its still miles above "Black-screening."
This is exactly the time of thing I'd want Mobile Infantry Raven Squads to be able to do.
Perhaps instead of a Spawn Control Unit at major Facilities, there should be a Spawn Room Shield Generator that protects PS1 style Hackable/Destroyable Spawn Tubes... ...The current Satellite Points could then have self-contained Units base on the current one room Spawn Shacks, that could be hacked/disabled from a point on the side. Of course, I think Outpost should keep the current system of only flipping with control of the base, as I have an interim solution to help base defensibility:
...I now have to compile three different responses like this in the time its taken me to write ONE! ...AND the first two are too big to put in one post! *Continue.* Last edited by Whiteagle; 2012-12-21 at 03:11 PM. Reason: To be continued! |
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2012-12-21, 03:10 PM | [Ignore Me] #215 | ||||||||||||||
Major
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*Continued and individually posted for the sake of space.*
Sorry if I hacked up your post for concisely Stanis...
Most Outpost, particularly on Indar and Esamir, seem to be designed with the idea that the most they'd ever see is a Tank or two and maybe a passing Aircraft... ...Not an entire fucking army rolling up for free XP!
I think they should go and try to start their own army in Second Life, then when they inevitably fail go and join the Merczateers to see how a base SHOULD be build... ...Believe me, Anthony be itching to rebuild the damn thing sooner or later.
This eventually evolved to include a Pipeline Lattice, which would be the means Resources were transported around the globe and could be sabotaged to hamper enemy factions. Such a fixed infrastructure system would work GREAT with ideas like these, each Outpost could provide some kind of benefit in addition to control of the Hex, while various pipeline nodes would provide secondary objectives with which Special Ops could deny the Resources and benefits granted by those Outpost.
It could be called the "Hack-Rabbit", and could provide that "mobile target" robocpf1 was talking about through completely player generated means! It'd probably be the only Vehicle you'd need to Certify into, via the Leadership tree. It'd also be completely defenseless, rather slow despite the name (perhaps it had rabbit ear antenna?), and the hacking effect won't stack (maybe even having enemy Hack-Rabbits cancel each-other out), but also comes with the ability to repair and restock friendly Vehicles by default. This would make them the perfect, non-invasive way to herd the Zerg, by giving them something they know will draw the enemy out for a fight! We could then call these Zerg the "Hounds!"
...I would also like to see Sunderer-AMS spawns take LONGER to recharge then a base's Spawn tubes, since it's kind of ridiculous that I'm able to respawn at a S-AMS 300 meters away faster then the room I just got run over exciting. Also good.
I mean, how many half filled Galaxies do you see flying around?
...And before you start with "Oh, but what about the Magrider?" know that the solution is EASY, albeit unwanted. Just switch the hull mounted Main Cannon out for Secondary Turret options and make beefed up variants of the Saron HRB into the Main Turrets! And quit moaning about "Oh, but we won't be able to shoot Infantry with the Hull gun!" You know as well as I do that the Roomba is a Manmower and won't have any trouble in that regard. Last edited by Whiteagle; 2012-12-21 at 03:29 PM. Reason: To be Concluded! |
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2012-12-21, 03:31 PM | [Ignore Me] #216 | |||
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This is all just an excuse IMO. Should there be more to do than there is now? Hell yes, but don't blame the lack of things to do on large outfits... They're just trying to consolidate the empire and bring a fun/organized atmosphere to the masses. It's better that we stand together as an empire than differentiate ourselves... it does the empire no good when people harass and belittle one another. So forget all this garbage about larger outfits... look at the real problem! |
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2012-12-21, 03:49 PM | [Ignore Me] #218 | ||
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I am a member of the 666th Devil Dogs on Connery. I am not going to read 15 pages of replies to get up to speed I just wanted to put input in.
As a member of a large outfit, I see battles where we steamroll the defenders. I've been in battles where we are steamrolled. The problem is people see a tag on someone's name and figure that everyone with that tag is doing the same thing pushing the same objective. If this was the case the faction would lose ground elsewhere. i.e..NC push TR on Indar, while all forces are focused to the north the VS push into us from the west. That is a zerg move. No strategy, just put everyone on one objective. The 666th has a few people commanding ground, air, and mechanized forces all at once. We do not simply zerg a waypoint. We usually have 1-2 squads on a point while the rest of the platoon/s secure surrounding areas. Armor squads watch for enemy armor and intercept. Air watches our armor's air space and keeps them safe. Even with all of this organization we still lose fights. If major outfits are the problem then why does a major outfit still have trouble capping a continent? Because the zerg won't have it. Like it or not the zerg is the best defense against us larger outfits. They may be mindless but while we fight that zerg you speak of our numbers don't matter. So you smaller outfits should take advantage of this and split our forces by flanking/back capping. I guess I'm saying there is no shame in being organized. If a large group of people want to be led by those with some strategic awareness and sense then what is wrong with that? As a side note, I would LOVE to see a server or 3 implemented to accept outfit transfers. That way the large outfits could fight each other. If all 3 factions had serious coordination we would see some epic battles. But guess what, even if that happens and the big outfits are centralized to a few servers, the zerg will still rule the "other" servers. Big outfits are not the problem, the mindless zerg is. Big outfits are the counter to those mindless zergs, zergs are the counter(along with other big outfits) to big outfits! If you small-medium sized outfits feel like you can't do anything then why don't you step away from the zerg war, cap somewhere else, and try to draw their forces away? Focus your forces on ONE objective in the zerg war. Hold that generator! Take down a satellite or two. Hell, camp a spawn if that's your thing. These are just my opinions and don't necessarily reflect those of the 666th. We as an outfit operate under a Code of Conduct and it states among other things to treat others with respect. It's a part of why I joined. Not to zerg, not to win, but to be organized and be a part of a group of people that act with honor. -Orcuss |
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2012-12-21, 03:58 PM | [Ignore Me] #220 | |||
PSU Admin
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2012-12-21, 04:20 PM | [Ignore Me] #223 | |||
Contributor General
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and this is not about Devildogs, there's no need to be so defensive. Look, I play on Miller, I've never seen Devildogs or The Enclave in action, nor AT come to that even though I played PS1 on Gemini |
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2012-12-21, 04:22 PM | [Ignore Me] #224 | ||
Private
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I'm going to flip this conversation and lay blame on the small outfits for zerging.
Most big outfits are organised. Take multiple points across the map, communicate and work as a team. They strike fast and move on to their next objective. They are not the zerg. The zerg are all your small outfits that have no ability to communicate properly. You all gather up and like lemmings, battle your way from one base to the next. Look at the combined force of a zerg attack. Do you only see one Outfit tag? Probably not. It's just a bunch of solo players and small outfits rolling along with the flow because they have no idea what else to do or how to make a difference. Now with that said I also think it's a problem with the games design that has made it impossible for the majority of the player populous to work together other than in a Zerg way. More tools are needed. So when it comes to the zerg I think everyone here bitching that it's the big outfits fault I really think you need to look at how you, as a small outfit, play the game. Big outfits make the game more fun when they are well organised like the one I am in. |
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2012-12-21, 04:27 PM | [Ignore Me] #225 | |||
Contributor General
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