PlanetSide Next Reaver Exclusive - Page 15

Gogita · 2011-02-09, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

So you want to destroy my favorite playstyle because it's not yours? Wow, you guys are a bunch of selfish selfish-people.

It is not that we want to remove bailing just because it is YOUR playstyle. It is because Planetside is a teamplay driven game. Having your own personal drop ship is not encouraging teamplay, more the opposite.

And you're being a hypocrite by calling other people selfish. We can say that you're being selfish here because you don't want bailing to be removed, because it's your favorite playstyle.

Bags · 2011-02-09, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gogita

It is not that we want to remove bailing just because it is YOUR playstyle. It is because Planetside is a teamplay driven game. Having your own personal drop ship is not encouraging teamplay, more the opposite.

So you're saying that 10 people bailing at the BD out of mossies to rush in and repair the tubes, allowing the zerg to rush in and reclaim a base isn't teamwork?

Gogita · 2011-02-09, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

So you're saying that 10 people bailing at the BD out of mossies to rush in and repair the tubes, allowing the zerg to rush in and reclaim a base isn't teamwork?

If that is your criteria of what teamwork is, then anything can be turned into teamwork. Let me give your another example of your version of teamwork:
10 players that are able to use every weapon ingame (because of the many cert points) that work together to attack a base, which they manage to do because all of them have HA, decimators, rexo's, medic, repair and hack.

Is this a good reason to give people many certs? No of course not. The problem is that you do not necessarily need teamwork if you got so many certs.
Just like that you do not necessarily need teamwork if you can just drop by yourself.

Bags · 2011-02-09, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gogita

If that is your criteria of what teamwork is, then anything can be turned into teamwork. Let me give your another example of your version of teamwork:
10 players that are able to use every weapon ingame (because of the many cert points) that work together to attack a base, which they manage to do because all of them have HA, decimators, rexo's, medic, repair and hack.

Is this a good reason to give people many certs? No of course not. The problem is that you do not necessarily need teamwork if you got so many certs.
Just like that you do not necessarily need teamwork if you can just drop by yourself.

That's a horrible comparison. Mossies foster teamwork as they allow a group of soldiers to move around and resecure bases quickly, at a low cert cost to each person.

Hamma · 2011-02-09, 04:45 PM

Bags,

I think you could go about arguing your point a bit better than you are - ease up a bit.

I honestly don't see the issue with single drops. Even in a team game there is still room for heroic actions of a few.

Dropping is pivotal to this game and was since release. I don't see any need to change it - although I am sure we will see tweaked mechanics.

Jonny · 2011-02-09, 05:03 PM

Hi. Thought id register as i'm excited about PS2, though i've never played planetside.

How about a parachute or the cockpit could detach and hit the earth? No need to remove something certain people find fun.

Raymac · 2011-02-09, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

If they made a flight suit it should beable to equip a glue gun without screwing your self over. In the back pack for example.

Nah, just do what I did. Get a glue gun - spawn your reaver - land - put glue gun in trunk - fly to air pad - Save Favorite Loadout - Now you have a glue gun in your trunk every time you load from your favorites. The spacing worked out nice too because the oddball sizes of the Reaver ammo left just enough room for the glue gun.

Bags · 2011-02-09, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Bags,

I think you could go about arguing your point a bit better than you are - ease up a bit.

I honestly don't see the issue with single drops. Even in a team game there is still room for heroic actions of a few.

Dropping is pivotal to this game and was since release. I don't see any need to change it - although I am sure we will see tweaked mechanics.

It's really frustrating when they come in here downplaying other's play styles as though the only teamwork is achievable in a galaxy and I don't seem to be getting through to them.

Aractain · 2011-02-09, 07:22 PM

I think mossie outfits and the like are cool. Fast response teams are needed. The galaxy dosn't really make the cut for thier requirements. I wouldn't want to force that on anyone.

I do have issues with the bail function though - nothing to do with resecures or fixing gens.

Here is why I don't like bailing and I mean in all vehicles. They bypass or trvialise other peoples playstyles.
AA? Worthless against a bailer. I know AA is generaly hated but it IS a valid playstyle just like aircav.
Air combat? You nearly defeat an enemy aircraft only to see him bail and get out a striker.
Infantry? Some hover spammer is nearly taken out by infantry but he bails and turns into a full health HA trooper. You have an AV weapon, or a flaklet and 26 health......

If PSN manages to solve all those issues and make the galaxy a viable choice then I see no problems with bailing. I think almost every part of the game should have 'solo' (which can be used together with teamwork) options as well as multiposition 'reliant teamwork' possibilitys.

Do you think they can?

Raymac · 2011-02-09, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Aractain

Here is why I don't like bailing and I mean in all vehicles. They bypass or trvialise other peoples playstyles.
AA? Worthless against a bailer. I know AA is generaly hated but it IS a valid playstyle just like aircav.
Air combat? You nearly defeat an enemy aircraft only to see him bail and get out a striker.
Infantry? Some hover spammer is nearly taken out by infantry but he bails and turns into a full health HA trooper. You have an AV weapon, or a flaklet and 26 health......

I think you are totally right about allowing Mosq drops for rapid response teams. I did alot of rapid response and sometimes you just need to scramble to get to a location as quickly as possible from where ever you are.

I do, however, have a little problem with the part I quoted. If you are concerned about getting a statistic credit for something, you will be left disappointed and you just need to deal with that.

For example, if you are AA, and you force a pilot to bail, well you don't get the kill stat, but you did your job since the plane is gone. Same is true in a dogfight where the other pilot bails. You still succeeded even though it doesn't show up on the official stat sheet.

Personally, as a pilot, if someone bailed during a dogfight, and they are out in the middle of no where, I get much more enjoyment out of making them walk all the way to the nearest base than I do from seeing their name in my killspam.

Firefly · 2011-02-09, 07:40 PM

If someone bails in a dogfight, rocket-spam their ass. Problem solved.

Furret · 2011-02-09, 07:49 PM

I can see where people are coming from when they complain about bailing, but it should be an option to pilots.

However, I do agree that it should be improved
Bailing should be more like what it really is: A last ditch effort to survive, not a second life. When you bail, you should open up a parachute, and fall very slowly, making yourself easy pickings for anyone with half decent aim. When you hit the ground, there should be about five seconds while you untangle yourself from your parachute and pull out a weapon. That'll give the enemy at least 10 seconds to mow you down with their weapon of choice while you're untangling yourself.

The problem I see with this, however, is regular hot dropping from a galaxy would be a pain in the ass.

My solution: bailing from a mossie isn't standard, so they dont give you a good parachute. However, nice parachutes come standard with the galaxy, so you fall at the regular bailing speed, and right before you hit the ground, they deploy, slow you down, then deconstruct and you dont lose any time compared to the original hotdrop.

The time you lose is caused by slowing down before you hit the ground, but the transition from falling to running is much smoother, whereas in the original PS you had to wait for the animation of you landing.

Suggestions?

Sirisian · 2011-02-09, 08:17 PM

Furret that is just a bad idea. I never use a Mossy/Reaver but bailing makes sense for them. Having to wait to move again would suck.

Also adding a flight suit that doesn't have a large gun slot ruins one important strategy in the game. Not because a pilot can't use HA, but because they can't use a sniper rifle. I remember tree sniping in the game after jumping from my liberator. It's the easiest way to get on top of a tree and into the canopy.

Also bailing from a plane when a ton of AA is about to own you is a valid strategy to escape death. I can't tell you how many times I've been low bombing and mistargeted by bombing run and all the AA in the base saw me. I was able to bail and get some kills in the base instead of facing an instant death.

Regarding the mossy it's a very nice fast transport and single person attack aircraft. If you really think it destroys teamwork we should add in a feature to the game so you lose health over time if you're too far from another friendly.

CutterJohn · 2011-02-09, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think you are totally right about allowing Mosq drops for rapid response teams. I did alot of rapid response and sometimes you just need to scramble to get to a location as quickly as possible from where ever you are.

Sure, but as fast as possible should imply some other sacrifice. Mossies are fast. Fastest thing in the game, and can ignore terrain. Cheap. 3 cert points, and you can get to any base on a continent in 2 minutes or less. Available without tech plant, at every base. And got you in an advantageous position when you got there. And the only sacrifice is you had to wear agile, which many soldiers wore out of choice anyway.

Take any land vehicle, response would be 5 times longer. Take a galaxy, and you are required to actually plan ahead and have one on hand if you want a fast response.

Mossies made getting where you needed to be to cheap and easy. Killed the size of the battlefield. And grossly expanded the numbers of air in the skies, since tons of people had them solely for transport(And heck, a reaver is only 2 more points. Why not? Its one of the best vehicles in the game..)

I'm not saying don't use them for transport, but there should be enough downsides that other choices are considered, and considered viable and important. If having to use agile was really such a big sacrifice, you'd think there would be plenty of people using ATVs, especially considering ATV cert costs. But there aren't.

For example, if you are AA, and you force a pilot to bail, well you don't get the kill stat, but you did your job since the plane is gone. Same is true in a dogfight where the other pilot bails. You still succeeded even though it doesn't show up on the official stat sheet.

This mentality is fine so long as you are max battle rank. When you are not, its pretty annoying for the enemy to be able to deny you the kill.

I think one thing that could be accomplished is offering experience for vehicle kills that were recently bailed from. In battlefield bad company 2, you get 50 points for kills, and another 50 for the vehicle. If a tank has 2 people, its 150 points. 50 per person, and 50 for the kill.

Sifer2 · 2011-02-09, 08:44 PM

Meh I don't really like the idea of using aircraft as fast Taxi cabs to get you somewhere or getting a free extra life either. I thought that was the whole point of those ATV's being so cheap as it was meant to be a way for your solo guy to get around faster.

If we really need rapid response teams so much I would say make it like special abilities Outfits can earn an buy. Such as purchasing a Oribital drop pod wherever they want. Would cost some kind of points each time you use it but would be a good way to get people where you wanted quickly.