News: Jimmy Whisenhunt Joins PlanetSide 2 Team - Page 16

Gwartham · 2012-06-23, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by GreatMazinkaise

Planetside is, to this date, the greatest multiplayer game ever created, flaws and all.

Deal with it.

I mean I get the fanboism. I loved ps1, but in no way in my mind was ps1 the greatest multiplayer game ever created. Its active playerbase isnt even a blip on the gaming radar, been that way for years.

I have played every MMO, every online fps since I got the bug way back when quake came out. In all those years a lot of good games have come and gone. They have thier good points, and they all had thier bad points, planetside included.

The point is there is enough of a experience pool out there now. Theres still a few die hard ps1 fans out there, but this game isnt being created to cater to them. Do you think this game, even with its graphics and scale, would hold any longterm value if we went back to buggy guns and cof bloom style gameplay?

Nah other games have shown that theres better options out there. Its pretty obvious that the devs have played their share of FPS, and they are using that influence in PS2.

Wisenhunt brings with him a critical eye and observation that this game will need, and put that together with the rest of the devs as a group, its to make the game stronger, not weaker.

I know the devs obviously have respect for PS1, and the loyalty of its fanbase, but the scope and vision of this new game goes far and well beyond the original game.

And to be honest the response that Wisenhunt got from this community? Honestly it was pretty shameful. Who here wouldnt of pounced at the opportunity to join the dev team in what is shaping up to be the greatest FPS ever?
Hell who here wouldnt want someone like Hamma on the team just for his observations and dedication to the game beyond the simple gameplay?

PS1 fanboi...meh...not so much.
PS2 fanboi...color me guilty as sin.

I have much love for the old game, much like I have much love for my old Chevelle. Much love for what it represented.

But in all honestly I would trade it for a Veyron any day

Jimmy was brought in to help ensure my new Veyron is firing on all cylinders.

So to Jimmy do us old OGL CS players proud

Hamma · 2012-06-23, 12:29 PM

After talking to him a bit in IRC, and here on the forums as well as watching his various videos and seeing his commitment to community already I think this is a good move for SOE and can only improve our gaming experience.

PlanetSide players are very passionate about our game and very defensive about changes made to it. But remember that this is 2012 not 2003, our beloved game wasn't really that good when it came to gun play back in the day. Having played PlanetSide 2 already myself I know that the gun play is already awesome and the mechanics feel great.

Jimmy can only help to improve that with his experience in competitive play. I for one hope they don't make the skill ceiling to high in an already in depth game but I have confidence the Developers know the right direction for PlanetSide 2 and what type of product they want.

Good luck to Mr. Whisenhunt and I apologize for the shenanigans in this thread - this community is extremely passionate and sometimes that shows through in negativity but you are a gamer just like the rest of us you understand that communities can sometimes be that way.

He wants what we all want, to end the era of watered down FPS and bring it to the next level. That's what we argue and debate every single day on this very forum is it not?

Sabot · 2012-06-23, 12:36 PM

Father Hamma has spoken. Now crawl back to your caves all of you!

Shogun · 2012-06-23, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

He wants what we all want, to end the era of watered down FPS and bring it to the next level. That's what we argue and debate every single day on this very forum is it not?

Exactly!

Baron · 2012-06-23, 12:47 PM

Please...

no jumping headshots with no scoped sniper rifles from 300 yards. The CoF in PS1 was a great mechanic.

Fek · 2012-06-23, 12:53 PM

You at least could of brought in the top tier Battlefield players or something.

Top tier Battlefield players don't exist, it's an imbalanced pub hero game. This guy comes from a competitive gaming background and therefore understands the importance of balanced. Though they obviously aren't going to let him design the whole game, hopefully he will move the gunplay further from spray and pray fests like BF3 and MW3 and closer to that of competitive games like CS and Pro Mod to ensure a better gaming experience for players of all skill levels.

I for one hope they don't make the skill ceiling to high in an already in depth game

Agreed, but considering the game is semi-realistic in terms of infantry movement speed, it's impossible for it to get to a point where it is actually difficult to hit people (as it is in games like UT or Quake). It's very easy to shoot people in CS for example, just if you are new the other guy will be able to do it faster, which is much less important in a game like PS2 where you are constantly blindsiding people.

BillyBob · 2012-06-23, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by zomg

That is an interesting point of view.

1 and 2, perhaps true.

I'm not going to comment on 3 and 4, because I don't think we can really say whether or not he thinks that based on what we know

Maybe I should stress again that these were merely my own very personal impressions I got from watching that video.

I might be completely wrong, especially given the fact that the video was about a very specific subject and may only apply within that context.

However, he did make some more general remarks that I question, but again, I might have misinterpreted him completely.

Originally Posted by zomg

I'm not sure if "dumbed down" is a good expession

I would say that CS is perhaps "reduced" in the fashion that it does not have all sorts of extra that distracts from its core gameplay, that is shooting people.

Ok, but to me that's often what reduced means or at least equates to; that it's dumbed-down.

Perhaps especially so when it, exactly as you point out, is about shooting people. Shooting people implies that it has some form of realistic foundation...there are people involved and you are shooting them with weapons. All these factors encompass known variables, such as anatomy, weapon mechanics and overall physics.

Personally, I don't see how removing and/or heavily simplifying those variables could be anything but dumbing things down?

Originally Posted by zomg

However we feel about CS, I think we can agree that it rewards a player for a) having good aim b) good movement c) "soundwhoring" and stealth d) knowledge of each weapon and item and their usage

I think that no matter what kind of shooter you are playing, these 4 cases are a part of what makes the shooter fun and rewarding. There may be other aspects involved as well, and not all may apply (mainly case c), but if you can make these feel "nice" in a shooter it makes the game better.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but it's still relative. In CS for example, "good movement" is being able to run around like a ferret on crack with little to no regards whatsoever to equipment or weapons...let alone any natural physical limitations of your body.

To say that ArmA for example, which is more realistic, requires less skill because it's slow and sluggish in comparison is just silly...as the skill lies in successfully moving and shooting your opponents in spite of those realistic limitations. Skills are still required to an equal extent, their focus simply lies on different elements.

Originally Posted by zomg

If randomness is involved to the point where having very accurate aiming (as an example) becomes irrelevant, can it be called "skill" anymore?

Sure, you could have a "tactic" of bringing 2:1 ratio of people into each fight to win them. Sure, that would be a skill in the sense of planning it so you have the edge.

However, reducing the mechanics of gunplay of an individual soldier to depend more on luck than skill would mean that the effort of an individual player is much reduced, and I believe it will also lead to frustration much more easily if (again for example) someone who has just started playing will have a 50-50 chance every time due to luck against someone with hundreds of hours.

If individual players become mere cannon fodder, is it fun for them to play?

Obviously I'm exaggerating here to help make a point, but you can see how improving an individual player's ability to affect the situation will also improve their enjoyment of the game.

Many use sidearms IRL in their daily jobs. Your average semi-automatic handgun for example has a limit to its inherent accuracy due to the spread of the weapon itself, and that spread will increase dramatically as distances become greater. Add to that the fact that it's impossible for a person to hold it absolutely 100% still without artificial support.

There's a very obvious random element to it. So why do these people even bother practicing? What's the point if it's random and there's no skill involved? Obviously, the answer is that there IS skill involved and the skill lies in doing your very best within the randomness you have to work with.

Btw, when I mentioned random elements, I was also referring to things like your weapon jamming etc...which also requires skill to recover from quickly. It also makes a point of always being close to cover, which also requires skill.

I'm obviously not in favor of too much randomization, but allowing weapons to be 100% accurate in themselves should IMO only be possible if we're talking about lasers or something to that effect.

And even with laser, unless we're talking about a stationary vehicle or lying prone with a bipod or firm support for your weapon, even then 100% accuracy should not be possible to achieve for longer periods of time due to your body swaying.

If PS2 is to successfully convey the feeling and impression of being engaged in large scale combat, it can't be too far removed from reality when it comes to these things. Certainly not to the spaced out Fantasy level of CS, which has pretty much nothing (or at the very best extremely little) in common with a true combat situation.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to answer this and I'll do my best not to clutter up this thread any further.

Again, welcome to Jimmy and congratulations on his position at SOE!

/BB

Gwartham · 2012-06-23, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Baron

Please...

no jumping headshots with no scoped sniper rifles from 300 yards. The CoF in PS1 was a great mechanic.

And thats exactly why they are bringing it back!

Oh wait......

Pyreal · 2012-06-23, 01:00 PM

Ok, so Jimmy is tackling player weapons... who's smoothing out turrets?

Solidblock · 2012-06-23, 01:14 PM

Can I just say that I've been following this topic since I've woke up UK time and I'm so pleased to actually see the devs involved in this community. Before this, I honestly just thought it was a facade that devs put on in order to give them a mandate for something or to increase sales.

Thanks SOE

zomg · 2012-06-23, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by BillyBob

All these factors encompass known variables, such as anatomy, weapon mechanics and overall physics.

Personally, I don't see how removing and/or heavily simplifying those variables could be anything but dumbing things down?

Hah, in that case we could probably call all games dumbed down...

Originally Posted by BillyBob

To say that ArmA for example, which is more realistic, requires less skill because it's slow and sluggish in comparison is just silly...as the skill lies in successfully moving and shooting your opponents in spite of those realistic limitations. Skills are still required to an equal extent, their focus simply lies on different elements.

You are exactly right there. In ArmA things still require skill and you are rewarded for learning the way ArmA works.

Sidearms are generally not used past the ranges where they are effectively accurate

But yeah, other weapons would have their own limitations as well.

As for the remainder of your post, quite agreed with that. I see we do agree in most respects with this; With my posts I mostly just wanted to point out that he seems very much capable of finding how these important aspects show in the game and working with the general idea on how to make them feel better.

Partack · 2012-06-23, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

Screw you quake / TFC lovers. UT:GOTY instagib for life!

*high five*

Toonlad · 2012-06-23, 01:48 PM

well done Mr 'H' and your team. I for one is absolutety chuffed to bits, that you guys are pouring in what ever resource you can, to make the game play and feel better. Hiring a competition player to give there advice/input is always going to give the team more to think about.

Onwards and upwards Devs, you have my vote in the bag

OnexBigxHebrew · 2012-06-23, 01:52 PM

I'm still having trouble discovering what relation e-sports have with planetside. I am an AVID longtime player of Gears and Halo, played wth several MLG teams, etc, and I fail to see the relation between 'e-sports' (still hate that name) and PS2, and I don't see how the two are at all alike, aside from being FPSs. I'm getting way more of a BF3-esque 'imersive' war shooter feel than a Counterstrike twitchfest vibe from this game. Not knocking counterstike (outdated as it may be), but I feel like this kind of puts a damper on bringing Planetside into the future.

I just don't feel like injecting theory from an old system with a tiny community is the best way to capture an audience and make PlanetSide 2 great.

Then again, I'm a player who welcomes PS2 modernization. I can definately see why those experiencing culture shock after seeing ADS game footage would be overjoyed about this guy, and I respect those opinions, but here's 2 problems I see with this:

A) This guy is irrelevant to even the CURRENT e-sports scene. He's holding on to a game that few care about when other games are breaking live-stream records. He seems sharp, but not exactly a model of relevancy.

B) E-sports ARE irrelevent to planetside. This game has WAAAAAY too many gimmicks and variables to even be remotely considered sport-like, as an arena shooter would. Don't get me wrong - that's a good thing in my eyes, as I certainly feel like warfare and fun are what I want out of planetside, not some ill-convieved notion that this game is at all like a competitive arena game. It's going to be about strategy, Zerg, and firefights. Shit wizzing by your head, aircraft flying by, stuff blowing up everywhere, that stuff

.

I like the idea of the devs considering balance, I just don't see what he has to offer. Either way, good luck to PS2 and Whisenhunt. Its still a good thing that the devs, especially in the F2P market, care about balance.

Stew · 2012-06-23, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

After talking to him a bit in IRC, and here on the forums as well as watching his various videos and seeing his commitment to community already I think this is a good move for SOE and can only improve our gaming experience.

PlanetSide players are very passionate about our game and very defensive about changes made to it. But remember that this is 2012 not 2003, our beloved game wasn't really that good when it came to gun play back in the day. Having played PlanetSide 2 already myself I know that the gun play is already awesome and the mechanics feel great.

Jimmy can only help to improve that with his experience in competitive play. I for one hope they don't make the skill ceiling to high in an already in depth game but I have confidence the Developers know the right direction for PlanetSide 2 and what type of product they want.

Good luck to Mr. Whisenhunt and I apologize for the shenanigans in this thread - this community is extremely passionate and sometimes that shows through in negativity but you are a gamer just like the rest of us you understand that communities can sometimes be that way.

He wants what we all want, to end the era of watered down FPS and bring it to the next level. That's what we argue and debate every single day on this very forum is it not?

I agree with this Hamma ...

The guy look to like creative gamers and imaginative and interesting ones i hope he will keep the same mind set about planetside 2 ...

And yes ps1 was far to be amasing in gunsplay etc.. So most of the changes are welcomes But anyway they just keep the same planetside in term of scales options available and even much more down the road ..