The Oracle of Death

[maradine]

Done up through weapon id 24003. Shouldn't be long now. This is going to be a big chart.

I'm actually a bit stunned by these numbers. So much death.

[Taramafor]

I'm quite interested in how the TR anti tank weapons perform since I'm contemplating where to put my certs there. Any chance of getting results from decimator, annihilator and striker? From the same side of the armor if possible and of course with said armor suffering no outside damage.

I'm mainly looking for damage/kills done from annihilator compared to striker. I expect anni to have much less kills as I hear people want to avoid it due to striker shooting more rockets but somehow I have a feeling all the rockets won't hit every time and there is forced lock on to take into account. Wondering if anni is actually worth it or not.

[Aarth]

The Launcher Data, also found in first post. Note the annihilator kills are all three factions combined, the striker still utterly dominates. Simply put the Stiker is completely superior to the annihilator and is likely the one weapon with the single biggest effect on the game.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1eXRaV2c#gid=0

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Aarth

The Launcher Data, also found in first post.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1eXRaV2c#gid=0

Odd. It's missing anni and deci. Striker's there though.

Edit: saw it at the bottom. Doh. I'm guessing all factions have access to them since it wasn't in the red TR section? Interesting to see the deci have more then striker. Guess I know what I'll be getting.

[maradine]

Just back to the pad, and lo, the data is cooked. I won't have the time to make it pretty (combine MAX arms, associated NS weapons to factions, paint with crayon) until Monday, but I thought I'd link the raws right now and do a few quick slices.

This is global server open on GU14 to this morning - about 125 hours. Note that you can't compare these numbers to any of the prior batches, as KPU rises over increased sample time.

The raw: http://bit.ly/1dio87M

The analysis: The flare guns are more effective killers than a Ranger. Any Ranger. Maybe someone should look at that.

[Plaqueis]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

Odd. It's missing anni and deci. Striker's there though.

Edit: saw it at the bottom. Doh. I'm guessing all factions have access to them since it wasn't in the red TR section? Interesting to see the deci have more then striker. Guess I know what I'll be getting.

Umm.. read the whole post you quoted. Or let me help; Striker has twice more kills than NC Phoenix, and three (3) times more than VS Lancer. All 3 factions use the Decimator, and the Striker isn't that far behind of it eventhough it's used only by TR. If you want to compare Decimators effectiviness to Striker, first divide its stats by 3, then compare (that's not all there is ofcourse, but atleast it gets you in the ballpark).

Like the poster you quoted said, Striker simply dominates all, to the point of being ridiculous.

[Blahnu]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

Odd. It's missing anni and deci. Striker's there though.

Edit: saw it at the bottom. Doh. I'm guessing all factions have access to them since it wasn't in the red TR section? Interesting to see the deci have more then striker. Guess I know what I'll be getting.

Remember, we are tracking infantry kills. Decimators score higher because of their usage in close quarters infantry fights.

[DviddLeff]

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

Umm.. read the whole post you quoted. Or let me help; Striker has twice more kills than NC Phoenix, and three (3) times more than VS Lancer. All 3 factions use the Decimator, and the Striker isn't that far behind of it eventhough it's used only by TR. If you want to compare Decimators effectiviness to Striker, first divide its stats by 3, then compare (that's not all there is ofcourse, but atleast it gets you in the ballpark).

Like the poster you quoted said, Striker simply dominates all, to the point of being ridiculous.

The striker isn't as effective individually, the real problem is the shear number of strikers being used.

[Isokon]

Originally Posted by maradine

The analysis: The flare guns are more effective killers than a Ranger. Any Ranger. Maybe someone should look at that.

The situation where the flare gun gets you kills is when you are pretty much guaranteed the kill any way. People could knife their opponent or use any other weapon at their disposal but they opt for the flar gun just for giggles.

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

Umm.. read the whole post you quoted. Or let me help; Striker has twice more kills than NC Phoenix, and three (3) times more than VS Lancer. All 3 factions use the Decimator, and the Striker isn't that far behind of it eventhough it's used only by TR. If you want to compare Decimators effectiviness to Striker, first divide its stats by 3, then compare (that's not all there is ofcourse, but atleast it gets you in the ballpark).

Like the poster you quoted said, Striker simply dominates all, to the point of being ridiculous.

*Face palms* Of course. Striker's TR only. How could I forget?

For an anti armor weapon, it's pretty impressive to get that many infantry kills especially since it has to lock on.

[Plaqueis]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

The striker isn't as effective individually, the real problem is the shear number of strikers being used.

False. It takes what, average 10 seconds to blow up any motorized target with Striker (unless the user has used certs to up the armor)?

Just an example from last night, not the first and most likely not the last time; i was driving my Sundy somewhere and came across 1 TR heavy in 'middle of nowhere'. He unloaded the Striker on me and i was down to last bars of health (warning sound but not flamed just yet) in about 3 seconds. I tried getting away while he reloaded, but there was nothing to hide in so he got 1 more round on me and i blew up (i know, blockade armor might help a bit but that's not the point). Try doing that with ANY other weapon including tanks. I can guarantee that you wont succeed, atleast with VS gear. Saron HRB or Zoe-Max with Vortexes might come close if you manage to get 1 meter behind the target and get to unload all on its ass.

I've had pretty much the same experience with Lightning (it's way weaker than a Sundy), and the Magrider (with Mag i can use the burner to try to get away, usually it doesnt work though).

And no, i'm not crying nerf. I'm just stating how it is at the moment in game, and the stats don't lie.

EDIT: Not that sheer number of them don't add to the 'problem', but Striker is far from being ineffective.

[Plaqueis]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

*Face palms* Of course. Striker's TR only. How could I forget?

For an anti armor weapon, it's pretty impressive to get that many infantry kills especially since it has to lock on.

Striker kills are all motorized units as far as i know, unless it can be fired without locking. Same goes for Decimator, but that's used by all 3 factions so it naturally has more kills. Dumbfire-rockets (not lock-ons) can kill infantry, and atleast VS antiair lock-on rocket (forgot its name) can be fired without locking.

[typhaon]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

The striker isn't as effective individually, the real problem is the shear number of strikers being used.

Comparing the ESRLs is a pretty pointless endeavor. Other than sharing the designation ESRL - they share very little in common with their usage.

ex. I use Phoenix quite a bit... I'd guess about 50% of my kills are turret users. Another 30% are just straight up infantry (low BR snipers and/or anyone that happens to already be wounded) 10% hovering ESFs over a spawn room and 10% kills from vehicles.

^Comparing that to the Striker doesn't even make sense. 100% of the Strikers kills are coming from vehicle/air destruction.

Likewise... with the AI MAX units. Through I think you can compare TR and VS - and see how VS is superior - because their AI units compete at similar ranges... mixxing those stats with the NC - which has a completely different usage - is like comparing shotguns to assault rifles.

I mean... you CAN do it - but you're obviously missing a huge part of the story.



It'd probably be more accurate to compare the Phoenix to an underslug grenade launcher or battle rifle.

A somewhat similar case can be made for the Lancer.

[Dreadnaut]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

The striker isn't as effective individually, the real problem is the shear number of strikers being used.

Striker is insanely powerful solo, not just in terms of damage output but it causes lots of fear.

Lets just use me flying in a Liberator as an example, and here are my reactions to being hit but ESRL's while speaking to my gunner...


Lancer: "LOL are we really getting hit by a Lancer? Can you please find him and kill him?"

Phoenix: "Whoa, did we really get hit by a Phoenix? I wish I knew who it was so I could send him a /tell and say, 'NICE SHOT!', but oh well, could you find him and kill him please? I won't fly slow anymore"

Striker: "OH HOLY F**K!!!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!!! GO GO GO GO GO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


See the difference? I don't care how many Lancers are shooting at me, they aren't going to kill me. I've never ONCE been killed by a team of Lancers. I've been killed maybe twice, EVER, by a Phoenix. I've been killed over and over and over again by the Striker and it's just a joke. The fact that it's ridiculously OP AND it will fly through buildings and terrain makes it the most game changing weapon in the entire game.

If there was a rifle in the game that could shoot through walls...do you think they'd have fixed it by now?

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Dreadnaut

The fact that it's ridiculously OP AND it will fly through buildings and terrain makes it the most game changing weapon in the entire game.

If there was a rifle in the game that could shoot through walls...do you think they'd have fixed it by now?

That explains it. I'm hoping that'll get fixed at some point. Multiple rockets is one thing but going through terrain is another (which should be the striker's weakness. Hitting terrain that is).

If it's happening a lot on Esamir keep in mind that the map does have terrain bugs (you can see through underneath quite a bit there). If it's happening on other continents too (probably is) then striker rockets (all rockets for that matter) should hit terrain.

Also, chaff (or whatever you get). I've had pilots avoid rockets with those and when striker rockets are heading your way it helps a LOT.

Though I do have to question how striker rockets can go through terrain when they're shooting up at an aircraft and not at a tank where hills and trees can get in the way. You sure they're not just using good cover?