Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside?

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Figure of speech. Clearly people do not like hearing the root of things in such a direct manner.

Maybe that's the problem?

The "root of things" is merely your opinion. It's not an opinion that everybody shares. But that doesn't matter. Higby isn't going to read this thread and think to himself "Yep those guys think AA needs to be stronger, so we'll buff it". He'll do whatever the bigger picture tells him to do.

You are passionate about your opinions. You won't be the only one. Others will be as passionate about theirs. Such is life.

There is no such thing as a "wrong opinion".

I think ground based AA will mostly be left alone for now. Higby did comment on balance a few days ago when he said "We have some minor discrepancies for some classes where time-to-kill vs. another class is a little longer than we want it to be, but for the most part, we are pretty much right where we want to be."

It could be that he was talking about AA vs Air, he could also have been talking about something else entirely.

Whatever changes they make, I don't think it will make any drastic difference to the current overall game balance. Things seem pretty good to me right now in terms of the whole game.

What we need more than 1v1 balancing is a decent meaningful meta-game and some proper command tools to try to quell some of the horrible zerging. I include the massive air zergs in that as well.

It would be good to bring all of that air into the game, instead of most of it playing its own furball up above the rest of the game. That won't happen by nerfing air or making AA overpowered again like it was at times in beta.

[MrBloodworth]

No, its not an opinion

I noticed no one has answered my question yet.

"wrong opinion", yes. Yes there is. When its wrong. If you have an opinion that is based on your skewed and/or otherwise warped personal experiences instead of one based on well thought out research, your opinion is invalid.

"Opinions" are not "Taste".

[SpottyGekko]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Figure of speech. Clearly people do not like hearing the root of things in such a direct manner. I Can help put this to light right now. For those of you who support the idea that Ground AA should be The AA, and not Air.

How many shots should it take, considering you missed nothing, to down a ( stock )Reaver with a ( stock )Skyguard?

As a Skyguard enthusiast I'd say 2 standard clips. But there's been very few opportunities lately for me to unload 2 clips into 1 ESF.

It seems the average pilot has learned to move better. The average pilot has certainly upgraded their ESF, because they seem to be getting harder to kill every day. They can cert-up to tank more of my damage, and to get away faster, which means that I have less time on target and the target can withstand more of the damage that is delivered in that window of opportunity.

My Skyguard certifications will never buy me a damage increase that will match the damage decrease gained from spending ESF certs. So the Skyguard becomes even less effective over time as the ESF's are upgraded.

But I'm OK with needing 2 or 3 Skyguards in a battery to pose a lethal threat to ESF's and Libs.

What I would dearly love though is for the Skyguard-equipped Lightning to have some more meaningful role to perform on the battlefield. If there's no air to scare off, that Skyguard is virtually useless, and dies quickly to just about anything that's hostile.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by CasualCat

Flying an ESF is different than everything else why not shooting it?

So you want different exp for shooting Lightnings, MBTs, Galaxies, Sunderers, Flashes, and liberators because they all drive/fly different?

Do you want exp for boarding sunderers, galaxies or any un-occopied seats in a vehicle? What exp for reloading your gun or maybe exp for switching weapons?

[Soothsayer]

I don't see this question you're asking, unless you are talking about how you say that every AA proponent in this thread wants to one-shot all aircraft and that they have to prove to you that that isn't what they're saying.

When a lightning equips anti armour rounds, it tear through tanks and sunderers.

When a lightning equips explosive rounds, it is really good against infantry.

When a lightning equips a skyguard, you are terrible against everything.

Specialization needs to be rewarded because you give up something at the expense of another.

When a ground unit specializes into anti air, it has picked what it is going to do. There is no downside to an ESF specializing into A2G because it remains effective at everything else. That cake you have is also being eaten.

You don't can't have both.

And Kevin Bacon was in Footloose.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by SpottyGekko

As a Skyguard enthusiast I'd say 2 standard clips. But there's been very few opportunities lately for me to unload 2 clips into 1 ESF.

It seems the average pilot has learned to move better. The average pilot has certainly upgraded their ESF, because they seem to be getting harder to kill every day. They can cert-up to tank more of my damage, and to get away faster, which means that I have less time on target and the target can withstand more of the damage that is delivered in that window of opportunity.

My Skyguard certifications will never buy me a damage increase that will match the damage decrease gained from spending ESF certs. So the Skyguard becomes even less effective over time as the ESF's are upgraded.

But I'm OK with needing 2 or 3 Skyguards in a battery to pose a lethal threat to ESF's and Libs.

What I would dearly love though is for the Skyguard-equipped Lightning to have some more meaningful role to perform on the battlefield. If there's no air to scare off, that Skyguard is virtually useless, and dies quickly to just about anything that's hostile.

Yeah, clearly not talking to you

I think your last comment is more about the lightning in general. The original skyguard was a great AA and could down Inf with its secondary gun.

I never really liked that they took away the secondary gun on the lightning, and made it a skyguard to boot. Mixed platform roles that end up being..less overall.

But, are you ignoring the increase Clip, Ammo and reload speed? I think so.


EDIT: What does A2G rockets have to do with AA's effectiveness exactly?

[Miffy]

People also have to realize none of this has been beta tested because for some reason SOE never let us test it. It'll take months for people to unlock the best AA weapons and so if they buff AA now then it'll become OP very quickly and go the other way.

SOE really need to make minimal changes and be prepared to change it again if there is a negative impact on the game. You cannot make massive balance changes all at once, if SOE do then they haven't learnt anything and the game will fail.

[MrBloodworth]

It was tested, they gave everyone thousands of certs in alpha/beta, more than once. Intentionally or unintentionally.

[CasualCat]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

So you want different exp for shooting Lightnings, MBTs, Galaxies, Sunderers, Flashes, and liberators because they all drive/fly different?

Do you want exp for boarding sunderers, galaxies or any un-occopied seats in a vehicle? What exp for reloading your gun or maybe exp for switching weapons?

I'm not talking about handling/driving characteristics. Go back and read above what I wrote about what makes an ESF unique versus any other vehicle in game.

The poster who posted immediately after you seems to get it.

[Miffy]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

It was tested, they gave everyone thousands of certs in alpha/beta, more than once. Intentionally or unintentionally.

I never got that.... I always had the same amount and could never test anything.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Miffy

I never got that.... I always had the same amount and could never test anything.

Well, it happened.

[CasualCat]

Originally Posted by Miffy

I never got that.... I always had the same amount and could never test anything.

A lot of people got 3000certs (cert costs were half what they are now too) across all the characters they had created.

I had characters with fully decked out ESFs. Another with a liberator. Each of the faction MBTs. etc etc.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Soothsayer

Specialization needs to be rewarded because you give up something at the expense of another.

When a ground unit specializes into anti air, it has picked what it is going to do. There is no downside to an ESF specializing into A2G because it remains effective at everything else. That cake you have is also being eaten.

You don't can't have both.

And Kevin Bacon was in Footloose.

You are rewarded if the target dies before it repairs. Just like everything else in the game. Tanks can get hit, repair and then take on more people but no one is complaining about that. Sunderers... galaxies.. liberators... insert vehicle type here... if it gets away and doesn't get killed, repairs and re-engages then no one gets exp. Why should ESF be treated different?

Now, if you pick A2G rockets on your ESF you are less effective against air targets. Sure you can hope to get the kill by dumbfiring your rockets or nailing them with your main gun. But a good pilot will get away... like insert vehicle type here.

If you are a MAX and your bursters aren't working you can switch to another weapon set, or you can do AI/AA/AV hybirds. Skyguards can damage other units with their guns, they are just not as effective.. like ESF having to dumbfire their rockets and pray they hit other air.

Heavy Assualts still have a main weapon so they can kill infantry like they are designed to do.

So the only issue is that people have a grudge against ESF and it should be treated differently because it can potentially (not always) get away to repair before it dies and Skyguards need a secondary weapon maybe? I guess that is what you are saying.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Then others will complain that they don't get exp raining on them everytime they fart and cough too. If the target doesn't die then you shouldn't get assist exp.. it's the same for sunderers, MBTs, lightnings... if it doesn't die then you don't get exp... why should shooting ESF be different than everything else in the game?

What about that times when the target does end getting killed by some means and you don't even get assists?

Iv had mixed results with getting assists in PS2. It tends to work against troops but with armored and air if I don't put at least 40% damage into one of them then I'll often never see an assist. Can't tell you how many times I watched something get destroyed while hitting it with anything I could and not get anything for it.

With AA not being a killer as it is now. There needs to be something to make it worth using for how much it costs in not only certs/SC but with how weak it makes you to everything else. Why must a counter to something cost more and come with a higher risk than what it is built to be fighting against?

[Miffy]

Originally Posted by CasualCat

A lot of people got 3000certs (cert costs were half what they are now too) across all the characters they had created.

I had characters with fully decked out ESFs. Another with a liberator. Each of the faction MBTs. etc etc.

They shudda just turned certs off to see how it would be once everyone had everything.