The Mine And Light Vehicles

[Senyu]

Why not introduce multiple mine types?

Normal Mines:Good against light vehicles, somewhat against infantry. Does some damage to heavy and MAX

Heavy Minesbare with the names for examples) Are effective against heavy vehicles and MAX's while infantry can stroll over them and light vehicles if remaining on the mine for more than a few seconds are destroyed.

Personnel Mine: This mine does explode from vehicles doing minor damage but is effective against infantry and good damage to MAX suits. The explosion is a AOE spread of fragmentation dealing damage to infantry nearby. Vehicles causing the explosion however prevent this spread and only the vehicle takes damage. Vehicles that take numerous of these explosions have their speed reduced each time as to prevent 1 vehicle clearing large amounts of these. Enough could make it immobile until repaired. The amount of speed reduction should be discussed for balanced play.

[LordReaver]

The problem with mine fields, is that they don't actually give players enough chance to avoid them in light vehicles. Heavy vehicles don't have this problem, because they have armor to spare. Keep in mind, that even an OS gives you warning. Increasing the draw distance would help with that, but at the same time it would decrease the point of minefields. The idea of having different mine types does the same thing ultimately. I had considered this before. It would add slightly deeper tactics, but I was trying to keep dev time down. So having it be vehicle based damage is probably the most simple solution.

[Senyu]

Random input from vehicle engeering thread, upgrade should be sensors, high lights nearby mines on your hud

[Peacemaker]

New take on it:

3 types of mines Cloaked, anti Infantry and anti vehicle. Anti Infantry mines can be destroyed by simple jammers, and shooting them. Anti Vehicle mines cannot be destroyed by shooting them. A mine clearing vehicle or infantry with a special piece of equipment is needed. EMP/ jammers do not effect these. They should be considerably powerful (more so than todays mines). Third is the cloaked mine, similar to todays mine it can only be seen with dark light. It cannot be detonated by light vehicles or infantry. Susceptible to everything current mines are.

Increase draw distance of anti vehicle mines.

Result: Mine fields bottleneck enemy vehicles, and are a pain to clear a path through. Less kills from these normal mines, unless deployed in blind spots. Anti Infantry mines would get nice kills for engies and traps could be laid for tanks with the cloaked mines.

[Canaris]

Can we at least get a special attachment upgrade for the tanks?

When engaged the mine sweeper has the tanks speed down to a crawl, leaving it vunerable to AV and Aircraft

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Canaris

Can we at least get a special attachment upgrade for the tanks?

When engaged the mine sweeper has the tanks speed down to a crawl, leaving it vunerable to AV and Aircraft

Honestly no one would use that, give up your weaps for mine clearing when you have no idea if there are mines? Now if mines were unable to be cleared by other means then maybe but do you want to see spam like "we need a mine sweeper asap so we can get in the cy." To me it seems like its not adding fun or complexity or anything but a layer of annoyance.

BUGGIES ALREADY TAKE LESS MINE DAMAGE. I hope everyone knows that, because despite me pointing that out in this thread im seeing many posters who dont know this. Does the damage they take currently possibly need lowered a bit more, probably. But unless you can come up with some new mine systems that improve gameplay, not just needless complication, then the current system is perfectly fine once its tweaked right.

Having said all that the current mines are prob about right versus vehicles, maybe a tweak based on % damage would work better for gameplay. You can always say its because these lighter vehicles move over the mines faster or have undercarriages designed to deflect blasts or whatever. In real life there are plenty of tanks that would be killed by a mne that a much less armored vehicle could withstand due to the undercarriage design, if you want to go that route.

If you want various mine types then for an AI mine, they must change gameplay somewhat, not just a simple "does more damage to infantry" change. Possibly a bouncing betty type of explosion. When tripped it springs up and explodes mid air blasting shrapnel that does alot of AI damage but very little av damage in a decent sized area,much bigger than a current mine. So if you are too close to someone, it will take you both out. Currently mines rarely ever get more than one person on foot, the larger blast radius defines it as AI. It would be deadly to infantry, but vehicles could mow over em and clear em out without takin much damage, 1/4 a normal mine. It encourages you to place em where infantry will be, not vehicles. Adds choices and flavor.

Also, to compensate, AV mines would be redesigned to do less damage to infantry. And possibly have them still explode when destroyed by weapons, but with their smaller blast radius you could easily stay back enough to take them out when on foot. Think of it as a concentrated blast to get thru armor.

So you would load the courtyard up with AV mines, areas near doors could be AI mines, with some AV if vehicles can get close. Base walls would be AI mines. Adds some tactics to it. Keeps the AV mines deadly but gives ps an actual AI mine which it doenst currently have.

[Raymac]

Am I mistaken, or did they used to have different mine types back in the day? I seem to remember they had AI mines and AV mines, but ended up combining them in order to streamline things for engineers.

I only say this because although I like the concept of having multiple mine types, I think 1 type might be a heck of alot better for actual gameplay...especially if this is an issue that the original PS dealt with already.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Honestly no one would use that, give up your weaps for mine clearing when you have no idea if there are mines? Now if mines were unable to be cleared by other means then maybe but do you want to see spam like "we need a mine sweeper asap so we can get in the cy." To me it seems like its not adding fun or complexity or anything but a layer of annoyance.

BUGGIES ALREADY TAKE LESS MINE DAMAGE. I hope everyone knows that, because despite me pointing that out in this thread im seeing many posters who dont know this. Does the damage they take currently possibly need lowered a bit more, probably. But unless you can come up with some new mine systems that improve gameplay, not just needless complication, then the current system is perfectly fine once its tweaked right.

Having said all that the current mines are prob about right versus vehicles, maybe a tweak based on % damage would work better for gameplay. You can always say its because these lighter vehicles move over the mines faster or have undercarriages designed to deflect blasts or whatever. In real life there are plenty of tanks that would be killed by a mne that a much less armored vehicle could withstand due to the undercarriage design, if you want to go that route.

If you want various mine types then for an AI mine, they must change gameplay somewhat, not just a simple "does more damage to infantry" change. Possibly a bouncing betty type of explosion. When tripped it springs up and explodes mid air blasting shrapnel that does alot of AI damage but very little av damage in a decent sized area,much bigger than a current mine. So if you are too close to someone, it will take you both out. Currently mines rarely ever get more than one person on foot, the larger blast radius defines it as AI. It would be deadly to infantry, but vehicles could mow over em and clear em out without takin much damage, 1/4 a normal mine. It encourages you to place em where infantry will be, not vehicles. Adds choices and flavor.

Also, to compensate, AV mines would be redesigned to do less damage to infantry. And possibly have them still explode when destroyed by weapons, but with their smaller blast radius you could easily stay back enough to take them out when on foot. Think of it as a concentrated blast to get thru armor.

So you would load the courtyard up with AV mines, areas near doors could be AI mines, with some AV if vehicles can get close. Base walls would be AI mines. Adds some tactics to it. Keeps the AV mines deadly but gives ps an actual AI mine which it doenst currently have.

umm the guns would still be attached, just like in the picture, where did you get the idea they wouldn't be?
This being a more advanced type of tech the sweeper could be retractable, just another way for clearying mines, not the only one. Seriously you jump to conclusions like a horny dog jumps on legs

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Canaris

umm the guns would still be attached, just like in the picture, where did you get the idea they wouldn't be?
This being a more advanced type of tech the sweeper could be retractable, just another way for clearying mines, not the only one. Seriously you jump to conclusions like a horny dog jumps on legs

Bleh, sorry man, not sure how i misread that. Although it would have to be somethin additional you added on the vehicle when purchased that had some downsides to it such as speed or loss of one of the weapons or whatever. Dont want every tank just having a mine sweeping mode. Even if it slowed you to a crawl when usin it, it would still negate mines way too easily unless you were givin up somethin permanently as mentioned above.

If you think about it, the sunderer variants are already mine sweepers with that EMP blast and the bazillion armor (twice that of the most heavily armored tank, 2.5x as much as a magrider). They are intended to be breaking thru shields, clearin out mines and takin a ton of damage to get your forces in close to the tower or inside the cy. It works beter than a tank with a sweeper on it and its still rarely used well. Although that may have more to do with lack of coordination. If we had that back in the day, i would have had my squads usin it alot. Thats prob the extent to which i would use anything as a mine sweeper, cant see much else gettin used if not even this gets used and it does more and does it all very well.

[Senyu]

Dont think we need a vehicle to clear mines.......I really cant imagine that being used as much as intended.

Better implementation of current mines or a new form would probably be much better

[Lonehunter]

Any heavy vech with an engi is fine for clearing mines, and this is another reason I like the way mines are now. With a good driver you won't die, and with the engi cert you can forget it every happened.

[Slamscape]

Possibly a better idea might just to have the light vehicles have "enhanced sensors" and increase their mine detection range slightly to give them a little bit more time to avoid mines altogether, or at least start turning to avoid some of the other mines.

It would still keep mines effective since, really the whole point of mines is not to get kills in random spots on the map but to funnel your enemies into a certain area, or cut off travel routes.

[Furret]

I'm thinking minefields should be much more obvious, but much harder to deal with.

The main point of minefields is to force enemy armor to take a different route, so if you mine a narrow choke, vehicles either have to go around, or the mines have to be cleared.

If the mines are going to be very obvious, they have to be a lot harder to get rid of.

Two solutions for getting rid of the mines:

One: Run over them.
Very effective and quick, but obviously not optimal as far as resource efficiency is concerned.

Two: Engineers can dismantle the mines individually, a process that takes about two seconds per mine; just enough time for a sniper to pick them off.

These mines, used in conjunction with a good sniper squad would effectively nullify all ground passage through the area. And if the decision is made to keep rolling armor through the field anyway, at least the empire will have plenty of notice before the enemy can breach the field.


As far as this relates to buggies, they wouldn't enter areas that are minefields, simple as that.

[Senyu]

Defining the role of the mines im sure would help this debate more.


Simply put, should mines just be something you set and forget about hoping someday a person or vehicle will run into it and you getting a kill.

Or a more active temporary tactic in placing mines quickly to narrow choke points and delay movement very effeciently.




Should the mine be as it is now a small pain that gets kills now and then just rolling over them just to clear. OR an active tactic that can be deadly and giving good cause to A. Avoid them, and B. Spend time disarming them.

[opticalshadow]

i see no reason what so ever a vehicle with almost no armor should take less damage, or worse not set a mine off at all. its a mine, and your vehicle still weighs quite a bit.


if anything light vehicles should be out right destroyed by a mine while tanks should be hurt less.

mines worked fine in ps, the risk of taking a light vehicle was less armor, the perk was mobility, changing that seems silly.