WDS awareness? - Page 2

EVILPIG · 2013-10-17, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

I prefer player driven motives. I hate the automated targeting of Alerts. Get the Global Lattice up and running, designate Home Continents and the players will be motivated to make the calls. They will choose when and where to fight based on a global strategy. Tie the resource system into the global picture. Require that anything you own, on any continent, must be able to draw a line to your Sanctuary Gate, even if it goes across multiple continents. Just set up a balanced link between continents and let the players shape it. Events should happen at times, but not be the norm.

bpostal · 2013-10-17, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

I can't really put what I feel something like WDS needs in words, at least not when I'm this sober. I'll have to pull a Duke and drunkenly ramble.

I will say though that one of my favorite parts of WDS has been the XXXX Night Ops with y'all devs. Realistically, it's not sustainable because there's work that needs doing and to ask that people take time out of their day, multiple times a week to do such a show is asking much too much. Still though, it's my favorite.

EVILPIG · 2013-10-17, 08:14 PM

Also, overall, I have always felt we need a 4th empire. The 3 way is designed to be perpetual. Ideally, the two empires in the weaker strategic position would always gang on the leader in any conflict. However, it doesn't usually work that way. Instead of that, which was supposed to keep it fun, empires will often flat double team when the blood is in the water. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just nature. It can be a ton of fun facing overwhelming odds, but empires can lose players getting kicked around a lot. If we had 4 empires, we'd see more diversity on that outcome, as empires would pair up more and we'd see a lot of combos.

I would also keep just 3 WG's per continent to really mix it up. 4 empires, 3 warpgates per cont.

bites · 2013-10-17, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

Something you can't just buy with money?

EG like the old resource/xp boost combo? ..

As it is now .. since I can just buy the 3 day boost .. there is no incentive.

Overall the stuff you guys have done with scoring is really good .. (despite the issues evilpig mentioned above regarding the ability to catch up to [on our server at least VANUs] ghost capping bonanza).

Decals and titles are meh .. (especially since with armor etc you can't see em!).

At the moment with my 6 month boost ... (and my current BR) I can see virtually no point in swopping it out or using the 3 day boost .... moreso since I only play NC .. and have no Vanu/TR characters (nc fur lyfe!! or something).

Chewy · 2013-10-17, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

For WDS to be exciting with how the game is currently setup. I don't know if you can have the WDS be an outfit lever thing, empire level yes but not outfit. It takes many outfits to impact the WDS score and with the rubberbanding Iv been seeing at server levels any effort is lost soon after you get a lead thanks to the bonuses the others get. Then you have snowballing in the overall scores where no one has control over. Even if an entire server was a single outfit I don't think it would make a dent in the over all score if that didn't start a snowball.

With the old score system high pop numbers ruled. With this system I have no clue how it works. Some how VS have a 5k-10k lead on 3 servers WITH the new system made to handicap the leader. How the hell is this happening? I can't figure it out from not understanding any of the rules or score values never being the same. You can't win or earn anything with this score system, just hope the math backstage works out in you favor. Yet somehow VS have found a way on 3 servers and I don't know why or how.

But with a score system set in stone like before we go back to pop numbers equaling power. Not good either way.

I have no idea how to make the WDS better, nothing is coming to mind. All I can think of is for SOE to choose what level they want an event to be at. Outfit, empire (by server), or an overall world deal. If outfit then you need the Nexus, anything else and pubs ruin scores. If server then you need rules set in stone that never change, maybe. If world then maybe a complex score system is needed to even out things and to stop snowballs from forming.

The way I see it. A man should effect the outfit, but not the server. An outfit should effect the server, but not the world. And a server should effect the world, but not past a point.

GeoGnome · 2013-10-17, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by bites

Something you can't just buy with money?

EG like the old resource/xp boost combo? ..

As it is now .. since I can just buy the 3 day boost .. there is no incentive.

Overall the stuff you guys have done with scoring is really good .. (despite the issues evilpig mentioned above regarding the ability to catch up to [on our server at least VANUs] ghost capping bonanza).

Decals and titles are meh .. (especially since with armor etc you can't see em!).

At the moment with my 6 month boost ... (and my current BR) I can see virtually no point in swopping it out or using the 3 day boost .... moreso since I only play NC .. and have no Vanu/TR characters (nc fur lyfe!! or something).

Pretty much what is said here. People need a picture of what they are fighting for. Currently the reward is: "A decal or a title" which is... well not much to me. A clear picture of what people are fighting for would be best... and it needs to be something special. A 3 day boost was put in place as a placeholder reward, I understand that, but there needs to be something that people can win that they feel motivated to care about trying to acquire.

OCNSethy · 2013-10-17, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

To have a faction actually win... something, anything. Then have to fight tooth and nail to get it back.

I undertand that PS2 is a perpetual conflict but when I log in day after day and and we are still fighting for a base that we flipped when I logged off, is to put it lightly, not exciting.

I guess this ties into continental latice or meta games or what ever the terms are but I would like to see my squad / faction fight for some tangable results.

Resource linked to bases means squat to me... so I cant pull a MAxx, fine, Ill pull a HA. These are not tangable to me. WDS is just as intangable to me at this point. Its a 3 day boost... meh.

I think Evilpigs ideas have a solid base to proceed from. /signed

Rolfski · 2013-10-17, 08:57 PM

I don't mind "artificial" or "gamy" mechanics tbh, as long as the result is intended. But for this new WDS system, I'm afraid it drives people to even more Indarside eventually.

DirtyBird · 2013-10-17, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

I dont think there is anything you can do in the short term to make the WDS exciting for myself.

This might have been different if there was faction loyalty encouraged by restricting players to one faction per server.
If people wanted to bypass that by creating new accounts then good luck to them, most couldn't be bothered.

As it is now I've created multiple characters on different factions for the sole purpose of getting a free boost.
When you eventually change that to reward participation then I guess in the long run I will still get my share.
Mind you, as soon as they release another paid heroic boost promotion I won't give a rats toss about a 3day reward. (provided the game is still alive by then)

Your goal seems to be directed towards having a balanced scoreboard.
I think thats something you will be forever tweaking if you want to achieve that. And you will have to continue to do that to be seen as sharing the rewards.
Your WDS becomes its own worse enemy if one side continues to dominate and there is little hope for the other factions.
It'll be a full time job when you currently cant control population/warpgate imbalances.
Maybe thats what you wanted, who knows.

I find it hard to believe that before you went to SOE that something like this would have been a priority in PS2 for you.
I would not be surprised if you arent all that keen on it yourself but its the job you have been given for now and you'll give it 110% in true Malorn fashion.
Like it or lump it, its here to stay.

Spinning a three faction Big Wheel to give away that 3day boost every month on an episode of the Command Center would have been a lot less work.
You could still weight factions to balance out results as well.

typhaon · 2013-10-18, 02:38 AM

Remember that time the entire NC faction rallied to take down those 2 fully upgraded and fortified bases that [name your top TR/VS outfits] had held deep within typical NC territory for 3 days? We worked for hours to cut off their supply lines and hold reinforcements at bay, while we hacked our way through various levels of shielding and defenses, until we finally took their control center in a epic firefight that almost ground the server to a halt. Man, that was awesome...

OR

Remember that time we (NC) captured 723 bases in a week and the TR only captured 698 and the VS 677? Man, that was awesome....

The whole concept of a scoring system that is designed to encourage you to keep doing what you're already doing, but at a faster pace.... so you can get more of what you already get (certs) from doing what you're already doing... seems flawed - if, the goal is to make greater fun for all.

If the goal is just to create a technically sound scoring system... I think you'll figure out the right variables and get them weighted properly.

I'm in the camp that thinks most would be just as happy if a wheel was spun each week to give away a 3-day boost.

PredatorFour · 2013-10-18, 04:39 AM

Make it more exciting ????? Well i dislike the normal alerts for being cheap band aid fixes and this is just one 'big alert'.

I suppose you could make it more exciting by randomly raining down meteors on the over-popped factions.

Like evil pig said, bring in home conts, global conquest, real Planetside. You played the original Malorn you know what we mean. Tell the other devs who claimed to of played the game but didn't.

ringring · 2013-10-18, 04:53 AM

Pretty much as evilpig said. Motivations should be player driven.

I can't see what can be done to WDS, I'm not even sure what it's intended to achieve.

The standard Events have their good points in as much as to do impact on player, outfit and empire behaviour, but because the end result is more XP (sometimes a lot more) and because more XP mean more certs and more certs equal more power then they have tended to destabilise populations.

An ideal ps2 would have neither Events nor WDS but rather something else and we know what that 'something else' is.

Baptist · 2013-10-18, 05:02 AM

Each Territory is worth points in the WDS system the longer you hold said territory the more points it's worth, is it possible to show how many points each hex is actually worth on the in game map while the WDS is in effect?

Ruffdog · 2013-10-18, 05:50 AM

I'd love to see implants come back. I know you had stick for stating cash could be used but bring them in with:

No real money to acquire them, in-game resources only, and

Associate a downside as well as an upside to using them which will help create real character development. And tie to battlerank levels so players have a real reason to level up.

That's just a bit of frosting for the ps2 cake. The main ingredients have been covered by pig and others

blampoet · 2013-10-18, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Let me put it another way - what would make it exciting for you?

TL;DR at the bottom

how useful...
no one can agree on anything
and a lot of cross talk...

A DEV ASKED US WHAT HE COULD DO... oppertunity to affect the game ahead... full speed i say.

OK, my 2 cents.

What we're aiming at is bragging rights (you write it enough in you marketing fluff...) TR doesn't need to brag we're the most over-poped... and 3 day xp boost isn't much to brag about...

You want to touch the emotion of LOOK AT ME- I WON

3 ways I can think of doing that

1)
WDS specific items only availabe for the winners (doesn't have to be GIVEN...... but demanding certs for something you achieved would be a douchy move)

*PreSeason winner get a unique vehicular decals (SHOULD NOT BE A NEW tag each week... I would go for an evolving look= win 1 week and you get a simple decal, second week same decal but with an additional element, third week is the week 2 decal but again with again an ADDTIONAL element (kind of like service ribbons with distinction). This way its less work for you and other factions see the decal and want it for themselves (less 4th factioneering)

*WDS mission specific outfit decal (give the less useful SOE team something to do= go through the data and find the= outfit w/ most bases take/ outfit w/ for most bases defended/ outfit w/ most players participated). I know the software/feature isn't ready yet for the player missions, but the data should already be there which means so could the rewards.

*WDS specific horn for winners (let your creative people go nuts)

These are all things which will make players go "I WANT" & do you work for you (BRING & TELL THEIR FRIENDS)

And it doesn't even require as much programmers to do (yes, some of us are aware of terms like resource management)

2)
Name a base after the winning oufit of a WDS week (screw the empire nonsense- loyalty runs to REAL PEOPLE meaning the friends you play with). The bigger the win, the bigger the base. (I know this was mentioned in the player mission sometimes)
(Might be a programming issue here, but you get the idea)

3)
Name the next weapon/vehicle after the winning outfit (this would be a good suspense builder)

NOTE:
Thought would have to be put on balancing between the zergfits and the smaller outfits...
i.e- winner outfit=number of members divided by hours participated. (this'll keep the zombiefits a reason to prune the dead accounts... or actually try to contact their old mates and try to bring them back to play (the newly optimized????) game)

TL;DR
2 key insight here:
***Loyalty does NOT run to the faction but to ones friends=outfit*** =less 4th factioneering
***Rewards should be tangible (and easy for SOE to apply) items that will invoke feelings of ENVY by all who see them in the future.***
There are several cosmetically items or game feature names that could invoke this

*i should be getting paid for this....