DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WHO? - Page 2

Carbon Copied · 2013-12-06, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by typhaon

It's about resources and time.

Which is worrisome to say the least... especially when we see corners being cut on something that should be a foundational part of gameplay.

As much as I hate the waiting game, I might be among the few who are happy to wait for "right" more so than "make do". If they have any pride in their work what so ever I'd like to think the former is applicable - but thus far... well the ball hasn't really left the SOE side of the court yet.

Overall though I know a few of the devs have mentioned they don't want to create a single vehicle (Malorn and T-Ray spring to mind at some point having broached that) to fulfill a single role - which to be fair I get that side of the argument however it's kind of moot if the AMS and ANT were on a shared chassis (independently equipped) and expand/establish the sunderer to be more of a troop mover/line smasher/line support vehicle. Yes.. specialization time and meaningful progression! That feeling of the "go to guy" when it comes to a certain task.

I'm not sure ANT runs would be as much of a pain as in PS1 as there's considerably more outpost cluttering the landscape (unfortunately) between main installations - I think they would have to re-evaluate the number of outposts or change some to non-contestable/linked (different topic) to bring the vehicle play (all round) into it - as it is bases are so convenient you could "sprint-hand-carry" the ores from source to power node and that's just dumb....

Rivenshield · 2013-12-06, 05:03 PM

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

Timealude · 2013-12-06, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

After they do the update to the Harasser, I highly doubt it will be viable as an energy transport. Being able to damage something like that with normal arms would be very easy to take them out and even worse so if a lib gets over it.

I want a new vehicle as well or hell if we really wanted to go all out...I want an actual trailer for the sundy and you can fill that up....but thats just a pipe dream.

Selerox · 2013-12-06, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by HereticusXZ

What's the point of other vehicles when the Sunderer is the end all do all vehicle? Most health, heaviest armor, Basilisks are terrifying when upgraded, AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, etc and NOW it's getting a ANT?

The Sunderer' just getting dumb now...

The Sunderer is supposed to be able to do a lot of things. It's the workhorse that drives the Empires.

If anything I'd be a little upset if they didn't make the Sunderer the vehicle that enables resource delivery. Why make it a specialist vehicle that would exclude newer players, when you could cert into a variant of the existing utility vehicle?

There's nothing wrong with a vehicle being able to do a lot of things. The only problem comes when that vehicle can do a number of those things at once.

The Sunderer should be able to do AMS, ANT, Diffuser, AA, repair, ammo, support and any number of other things. But crucially it shouldn't be able to do multiple roles at once. Right now it absolutely fits that definition, so I don't see any reason why you couldn't have an ANT function.

I'd love to see the Galaxy get even close to the same versatility of the Sunderer. I don't necessarily think the Galaxy should be a part of the ANT system (although the ability to air drop resources into a cut-off base is an appealing one, but it needs to be able to be certed to do a variety of rolls.

Right now it's a one-way ticket into fire. It shouldn't be that way.

Timithos · 2013-12-06, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Eggy

At the moment we have a scenatrio where 1 empire can have zero pressence on a continent except for the masses at 1 base "the crown". Without power this fight cannot go on and on and on for days, like it does now.

Crown fights haven't been like that for months ever since they changed the cap point locations. Are you still playing Planetside now?

Ghoest9 · 2013-12-06, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

NOTHING was worse than being forced to drive an ANT for the good of your side even though you hated doing it.
It just made you want to log off and play a different game(usually DAoC back then) .

Carbon Copied · 2013-12-07, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Selerox

-snip-

How does creating an extra/specialist vehicle exclude new players when you can pull anything, anytime and pretty much anywhere right down to the moment you walk out the warp gate spawn room as a new player? You don't really back up your opinion of why other than "because I think so".

There are positives and negatives for both sides of the coin yes but in any case there is no excuse for lazy design and "bolt on" methods - which I'd not find it hard to say almost all sunderer utilities are.

Blynd · 2013-12-07, 08:32 AM

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

camycamera · 2013-12-07, 10:43 AM

i can understand making it a module for the sundy, but the sundy handles terribly, can carry 12 people, and packs a punch (basilisks). they either need to

1. make the module completely visually change the look of the sundy and the way it drives, and remove troop transport abilities and offensive abilities.

2. like someone else said, give it to the harasser, and do the same as above.

3. make an entirely new vehicle.

many are arguing 3, but making it specialised just for one thing is not really the way to go in this game.

however, if you were to have that new vehicle be able to specialise in many other instances.... maybe like a portable cloaker for vehicles? i don't know, but maybe the new vehicle could focus purely on defensive/objective-based instances, like the ANT and cloak thingy.

but for now, we'll just have to wait and see.

HereticusXZ · 2013-12-07, 11:00 AM

I -HATE- the idea of giving the ANT to a pre-existing vehicle. I want a new vehicle because the same old lineup is stale, Especially don't give it to a Sunderer because as is - with certed Basilisks you have no reason to pull any other vehicle!
It has AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, Blockade Armor making it the most sponge like vehicle in the game (next to a Galaxy), It carries 12 players - right now we have no idea in-game how many crew a enemy vehicle, Could be solo, could be a full squad of enemy MAX, I don't know! Sunderer's are the end all do anything vehicle, Beyond cost of resources you have no reason to pull anything else when a army of Sunderer's kills everything!

But with all that put aside...

If you're going to give the ANT to any pre-existing vehicle, give it to the Galaxy! Galaxies need a reason to be kept alive and not just pull, taxi, and forget. What a waste of resources....

Giving a ANT to a Galaxy also gives players more incentive to tag along with pilots who have geared and enjoy the Galaxy Gunship role instead of gun and forget. Everyone wants to gun a Lib, MBT, or Harasser but do you know how frustrating it is to find gunners for a Galaxy in a Squad/Platoon/Outfit?

Oty · 2013-12-07, 12:13 PM

I rather think it's a good idea too give the ANT to the sundy. here is why:
1. It's a truck! From a logical point of view there is no reason for an empire (I know its a game but still) to build a new vehicle for energy transport if they already got a stable truck to put some energy canister into.

2. It's durable! remember there is 2000 players on each continent, and alot of firepower can be directed at one place at one time. For any chance of delivering to a base heavily under siege then one needs a heavily protected vehicle.

3. It has firepower! same reason as above. If the sundy is target for a mission it will have to defend itself from alot of things. Here it's ability to carry infantry for further protection comes in handy aswell.

4. It's quite big! to balance out that it has armour and firepower, it is also a quite big target for the enemy to hit.

5. optimization! I assume that the less different types of vehicles that needs to be rendered during a figth the better the game will run. (just an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong)

Also, to load the ANT vehicle in a galaxy and just drop it where needed seems too easy, even though it needs some skill.

However if any of you played BF vietnam, in this game there was the possibility to airlift vehicles. i.e the helicopters could send down a rope and eg. snag a tank. Fly with it to a destination and drop it in. the tank was exposed during the flight but could shoot.
If this feature was added to the galaxy then we suddenly have a high skill, high risk, high reward situation. It would also require teamwork in the air and on the ground.

ringring · 2013-12-07, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Blynd

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

SgtMAD · 2013-12-07, 04:49 PM

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

Calista · 2013-12-07, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by SgtMAD

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

For sure but I think this is an attempt to make resources actually matter. The middle of this game is ok, it's the beginning and end that are hurting pop retention. The new player experience is abysmal and there is no real end game whatsoever. Alerts try but just encourage empire hopping and are not very creative in their content.

Anyway, wonder if they could hold off until those new vehicles get released and proclaim them the ANT. Sundy just does enough already.

Blynd · 2013-12-08, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

I don't but if they were to put the refuling area outside of a base how would you stop a ton of armour just camping it till the base is drained ????

Also by making a dropship you allow for interesting base design in the future rather then the vanilla stuff we have now. Because you dint have to worry about can an ant get in it.