Death penalty in PS2

[IMMentat]

I like the spawn waves they do in other games, every object that can spawn players could be tied to a count-down-clock of varying duration, longer on mobile units, bases would get one of the shorter cycle times. but i'm talking 10 seconds versus 30 here, nothing extreme.

It would reduce the usual conga line running to the fight, and make is to that reinforcements would arrive in more meaningful numbers.

Another thing to consider are friendly revives, planetside allowed you to be revived as long as you didnt get forced back to sanc (about 60? seconds I think), will PS2 have an equally generous revive window?

[IMMentat]

And if to many people try to spawn at once, the "tubes" could double spawn folks side by side, or in formations.

By the way, anyone know if there will be friendly clipping in PS2? its a mixed bag, to much and griefers will stand in doorways blocking ppl in, not enough and we'll be fighting amorphous blobs instead of an enemy army.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by CuddlyChud

I think that death in Planetside often isn't a consequence of your actions. With so many people fighting, its equal parts luck and skill whether or not you die. I think death penalties are just more frustrating than useful.

The real penalty for death is simply that you respawn away from the action and need to make your way back.

I agree it up to luck sometimes, that's why number of death per time unit before it occurs should be well tested before implementing it. But still I'm not convinced there should be none. Maybe in short terms it could be frustrating to arena shooter players but in long run it would lead to more tactical gameplay experience and less headless charging into enemy areas.

With all the various means of respawn mentioned I doubt that will be punishing enough.

Originally Posted by IMMentat

I like the spawn waves they do in other games, every object that can spawn players could be tied to a count-down-clock of varying duration, longer on mobile units, bases would get one of the shorter cycle times. but i'm talking 10 seconds versus 30 here, nothing extreme.

It would reduce the usual conga line running to the fight, and make is to that reinforcements would arrive in more meaningful numbers.

This would be problematic if group based since one very inept/reckless member would mean serious limiting factor for the entire team. Take Team Death-matches in Tribes since death count is group based - one player who dies very often can decide an entire outcomes of a match between two otherwise equally strong teams

[Brusi]

The devs have stated that they are trying to remove elements that slow down gameplay, so i doubt that there will be any penalties for fast gameplay in PS2. People generally react badly to punishment anyway...

I think what really needs to be looked at harder, are ways to make waiting for a rez a more enticing option than respawning and running back into the fight. Additionally, making staying alive for longer more rewarding.

Anyway here are a couple of ideas:

Negative:

• Spawned with 1hp less health every time you died within a minute of being spawned from the same spawn point
• Run speed slowed slightly after rebirthing frequently from the same location (like 5 times in 5 mins or something)
• XP debuff, until you can spawn and stay alive for longer than 1 min

These would all suck royally... but may perhaps have the desired effect of having the player choose a different tactic rather than zerging, or wait to accept a rez if the area is clear Without directly slowing down gameplay by adding a longer spawn timer.

Better ideas:

Give temporary buffs to anyone who is rezzed. This could even be decided via the attending medic’s skills in the medic skill tree. Things like:

• Give buffs to HP
• Temporary Invulnerability
• Run Speed
• Damage buff
• XP buff

I honestly don't see any problems with an enemy getting slaughtered, then tapping out and running back to get slaughtered again. However, one carrot that sometimes works is rewarding killstreaks. Perhaps you get a little xp boost if you kill 5 people without getting killed yourself?

[Immigrant]

Some nice ideas Brusi, however I disagree on kill streaks since they only reward classic soldier classes. What about medics and engineers? They will certainly have less streaks than average combat orientated classes.

[Kurtz]

The frequency of your deaths has caused a latency in your respawn. (or something like that)

[Brusi]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Some nice ideas Brusi, however I disagree on kill streaks since they only reward classic soldier classes. What about medics and engineers? They will certainly have less streaks than average combat orientated classes.

So you think as a medic you won't be killing people? This is an FPS game... Much more so than the original.

The idea is to try and make those who would be zerg rushing in for kills to reconsider spamming the respawn button though, right? I think idea that if they wait for a rez, they can continue their killstreak would have that effect. Knowing they have killed 3 guys and that they should fall back, heal up and grab some more ammo if they want to continue that streak rather than suicide charging with their knife so that they can come back with full HP and Ammo also has the desired effect.

I'm not a huge fan of killstreaks, i would just be surprised if the devs hadn't already planned on implementing them.

It's easy enough to add rez-streaks to medic class or something anyway, but considering anyone playing in a support role would probably not be spamming their respawns at the enemy anyway, it just seems unneccesary.

[Xyntech]

Most important is that waiting for a rez should NEVER make it take longer for you to spawn.

The fact that the spawn timer didn't start counting down until AFTER you released in the first game is criminally incompetent.

The moment you die, your respawn timer should start counting down. Once it hits zero, you should be able to instantly spawn wherever you choose, or you can wait around and not spawn for a while even after it hits zero.

Meanwhile, a medic should be able to try to revive you the ENTIRE time you are dead. The time they should stop being able to try to revive you is the exact moment you spawn somewhere else.

Medics should also be able to see how much of a respawn timer someone has left, in case they notice that a lot of players are punching out the moment it hits zero. That way they can focus more on players who either have some time left to go, or who are still waiting around even after their timers hit zero.

A button to easily call for a medic like in TF2 may be a good thing as well. Another way to decide who to prioritize when healing and rezzing a bunch of random players. Maybe the standard voice macros would be good enough, but this particular one should give the hurt/dead player an icon to indicate they have called for a medic as well.

I'm kind of against penalties for spawning, but if they improve some aspect of balance, I would consider them. As long as they are more subtle like some of Brusi's suggestions, and don't take you out of the fight longer like an increased spawn time.

I also like the idea that you can reduce penalties by spawning at a different spawn point. It would make it even more beneficial to have control of several spawn rooms and have several Galaxies deployed in an area.

[NCLynx]

In a game where death is almost more common than anything else, why would you want to penalize it? Sure for everyone kill someone gets that's a death on someones part too but not every death gave a kill.

Those god damn trees... Although that's PS1. Still though, why penalize people for dying when it's one of the two most main aspects of the game. (Kill or be killed)

[Graywolves]

The purpose of a death penalty is similar to the purpose of one in any other MMO.


If there is no death penalty there is no reason to put effort in to playing better or trying harder. There are many players who will bash their heads against the wall and fail repeatedly until they have a reason to play with more caution.


This is of course a double-edged sword as veterans will recall many times when players were stacked at the backdoor but no one was pushing.




Personally. I enjoy punishing poor play. But I'm not going to say that's good for the game. (Success in the gaming market appears to be in being as casual friendly as possible too.)

[Brusi]

Exhibit 1: World of Warcraft VS Everquest

[CuddlyChud]

I don't think adding a death penalty is going to make players suddenly better. If you weren't doing well without that sort of penalty, i don't see why you would do better with one. No one likes to die in a video game. It's not like without a death penalty suddenly death is enjoyable. Rather, people who bash their heads against the wall repeatedly probably just aren't that good at staying alive, and that's the best there gonna do regardless. A death penalty like this just makes it more frustrating, especially when you die due to chance.

[Stardouser]

MMOFPS =/= MMORPG; a death penalty only discourages aggressive play and encourages camping and/or taking shots from long range and fleeing(guerilla warfare). The enemy is what you should be fighting, not the respawn timer.

[SteinB]

Unless they have some refund mechanic there will be the penalty of wasting the resources you paid for any consumables you had purchased: grenades etc. Also possibly implants depending on how their timer works.

[WorldOfForms]

One of PS1's biggest problems was how obscure and unfriendly it was to new players. PS2 needs to grab people right away so they stick around and end up paying money or at least make the game massive for the people who do spend money.

Death penalties make the game unfriendly. Hell, if anything people should get deathstreak bonuses.

We don't have to worry about punishing poor play - the nature of PlanetSide does that fine by itself. The scale of the battles naturally reward smart play, while dumb play gets you killed repeatedly, which is punishment enough.

Plus, as people have pointed out, resources will mean that smart play matters, or you'll be wasting precious resources.