Another Artillery Thread

[Gugabalog]

Buggsy, logistics is what wins wars, battles, and skirmishes. You just lost a lot of credibility on this forum.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Buggsy, logistics is what wins wars, battles, and skirmishes. You just lost a lot of credibility on this forum.

Well isn't that groovy.

Define logistics.

[Gugabalog]

This was already defined in Malorns Planetside Manifesto but...

In the case of an objective based MMOFPS it can be defined as:

Production rate: Longer ques mean more wait time and a slower reaction with heavier firepower. (I.E. Spawn Tubes, Vehicle Terminals, Air Terminals)

Travel Time: The time it takes to get to a battle.

Communication: This can result in the proper counters to enemy forces being equipped or prepared prior to reengagement.

Zerg size: The more zerg players involved in the inevitable zerg the greater the weight on enemy logistics to resist them as well as coordinated groups.

These things and various other factors can give a force the edge needed to win battle after battle in a non-phyrric style and eventually the greater conflict. This is because gaining local superiority in a territory based mmofps means the difference between breaking through the enemy lines and a meat grinder.

EDIT: And the point in my defining this was?

[Graf]

What if we made artillery a cert for the Sunderer? That would be interesting. It would only be able to fire when x amount of players were in the vehical, and would require someone to laze the target. This would play into the sunderer's ability to act as a mini, mobile base. The cert would lower the sunderer's speed, acceleration, and would take the place of a few seats in the sunderer, or a few turret spots. This would keep people working as a team, and expand the sunderer's nich out of just transport and into somthing a bit more special. Something similar could be done to the galaxy which would be even cooler.

What do you guys think about that?

[Gugabalog]

I think they should do a remodel of the sunderer and add that remodel in as an additional vehicle to fill the artillery niche if they do anything of this nature.

I still say MBTs fill this niche within the scope of the game.

[Graf]

How about giving the sunderer the ability to call in an orbital strike, or something of that nature, and use that as the artillery peice. No additional modeling required, though not as cool. This would allow the sunderer to act as more than a transport, and satisfy the artillery people.

[Gugabalog]

That really wouldn't.

Though seeing a CIC certed sunderer would be very interesting.

[Xenostalker]

If you want to tow around artillery and AT emplacements, go try out WWII online.

It's cool at first: realism is neat. After a while..... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Phisionary]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Don't use the word "logistics" in a game where players magically teleport into existence.

If the artillery is mobile and easily soloable than it will be nerfed into uselessness or not even exist at all.

If it takes five human players (magically teleported or not) to do what an electric motor could probably do--even in real life, today--it's still a problem of logistics.

If artillery is slightly mobile (deploy-to-fire), almost-uselessly soloable (who would defend it?), requires LOS targeting, and needs to be actively defended to be of substantial use... I think it can be both balanced and fun to play.

[rekefant]

Fire and go arty wont work. But a SPG that has to set up and the pack down before firing would work.
One thing to note is the need for atleast 2 people crewing it to be effective with a driver and a gunner and no way for the spg to defend itself at close range. The driver would be doing the defending or he could do it solo.
BUT doing it solo would need the driver to be in the driver seat while it sets up then get into the gunner seat and fire then out to reload (autoreloading could be a cert) then jump into the driver seat and undeploy if he needs to.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

This was already defined in Malorns Planetside Manifesto but...

In the case of an objective based MMOFPS it can be defined as:

Production rate: Longer ques mean more wait time and a slower reaction with heavier firepower. (I.E. Spawn Tubes, Vehicle Terminals, Air Terminals)

Travel Time: The time it takes to get to a battle.

Communication: This can result in the proper counters to enemy forces being equipped or prepared prior to reengagement.

Zerg size: The more zerg players involved in the inevitable zerg the greater the weight on enemy logistics to resist them as well as coordinated groups.

These things and various other factors can give a force the edge needed to win battle after battle in a non-phyrric style and eventually the greater conflict. This is because gaining local superiority in a territory based mmofps means the difference between breaking through the enemy lines and a meat grinder.

EDIT: And the point in my defining this was?

Wrong. Logistics is an unbroken visible interdiction'able chain of supply going from manufacturing facility to player avatar. Logistics is what makes a front line a front line, and it has never been simulated before in any game so stop using the word.

Originally Posted by Phisionary

If it takes five human players (magically teleported or not) to do what an electric motor could probably do--even in real life, today--it's still a problem of logistics.

If artillery is slightly mobile (deploy-to-fire), almost-uselessly soloable (who would defend it?), requires LOS targeting, and needs to be actively defended to be of substantial use... I think it can be both balanced and fun to play.

A) Stop using the word logistics, you don't know what it means.

B) The flail was slightly mobile and only soloable, which is why it is OP and won't exist in PS2.

Originally Posted by Xenostalker

If you want to tow around artillery and AT emplacements, go try out WWII online.

It's cool at first: realism is neat. After a while..... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

It has nothing to do with realism, it has everything to do with balance. SPA won't exist or it will be nerfed into uselessness.

Originally Posted by Graf

How about giving the sunderer the ability to call in an orbital strike, or something of that nature, and use that as the artillery peice. No additional modeling required, though not as cool. This would allow the sunderer to act as more than a transport, and satisfy the artillery people.

I-win buttons that can't be countered is lame.

[Gugabalog]

Wrong. Logistics is an unbroken visible interdiction'able chain of supply going from manufacturing facility to player avatar. Logistics is what makes a front line a front line, and it has never been simulated before in any game so stop using the word.

Production can be interdicted by disabling generators, and has been simulated in PS1 as well as any other game that features destroyable enemy spawners. I.E. RTS games.

Communication can be simulated to be interdicted but is not for playability.

Don't like the zerg size? Use diversionary tactics.

Your claim is disproven.

[Graf]

Great counter argument Buggsy! Kudos! However, I do belive airstrikes (or orbital strikes) were used in PS1 by high level players. If the airstrike/orbital strike was balenced in a similar way to how it was balanced in PS1, I don't see how it would take the form of an "I Win" button. Though if it was balenced in correctly it would. If utilized it probably have to be an exteremly high level cert and be hard to aim, or the target would have to be lazed, and the sunderer would be immobile while doing the airstrike and such. What do you think?

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Graf

Great counter argument Buggsy! Kudos! However, I do belive airstrikes (or orbital strikes) were used in PS1 by high level players. If the airstrike/orbital strike was balenced in a similar way to how it was balanced in PS1, I don't see how it would take the form of an "I Win" button. Though if it was balenced in correctly it would. If utilized it probably have to be an exteremly high level cert and be hard to aim, or the target would have to be lazed, and the sunderer would be immobile while doing the airstrike and such. What do you think?

You cannot balance hitting a button and auto-killing everything in a radius.

[Graf]

Have you guys considered that logistics might have different meanings...

dictionary.com


lo·gis·tics
   [loh-jis-tiks, luh-] Show IPA

noun ( used with a singular or plural verb )
1.
the branch of military science and operations dealing with the procurement, supply, and maintenance of equipment, with the movement, evacuation, and hospitalization of personnel, with the provision of facilities and services, and with related matters.

2.
the planning, implementation, and coordination of the details of a business or other operation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logistics?s=t



Maybe you guys are talking about something else, but I think you both are right about the definition of logistics.