Unreactable TTK= Shotgun..More Nerf/ Less Insta kill

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

I understand that shotguns should have an edge in close quarter combat but the TTK is way too low, you can't even react.

Depends. If he comes in your back, EI he see you but you don't see him. No you don't have time to turn around and then kill him. If he comes infront of you, you have time to react if you're alert.

The slow reload speed on shotguns balance it IMO. If you want to nerf them a bit I think its a better idea to lower the magazine size instead. But I don't see any need for it.

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

But TTK is based on when you first engage. Shotguns require moving into range. So if you are dying to them a lot you are either failing to kill people as they advance or you are letting people sneak up on you.

Are you sure about that? I just thought it was the Time To Kill some one with the weapon. BTW how do you measure TTK if you also including the approach too? What if I have sneeked around two buildings to come up behind his back that toock 2 minutes and then one shot him at close range with a bolt action sniper rifle. Does the rifles have a TTK of 2.01 minutes then?

[ShadetheDruid]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Are you sure about that? I just thought it was the Time To Kill some one with the weapon. BTW how do you measure TTK if you also including the approach too? What if I have sneeked around two buildings to come up behind his back that toock 2 minutes and then one shot him at close range with a bolt action sniper rifle. Does the rifles have a TTK of 2.01 minutes then?

If i've learnt anything from PSU, it's that TTK can mean whatever you want it to mean.

[maradine]

I'm planning on playing tonight - I'll probably wind up killing some guys. Do I start the clock now? Or at login?

[Figment]

Prefer PS1 Sweeper: beat rifles, but took skill to use since you had to be consistent over time.

Thing is, they gave them this short ttk because rifles have short ttks even at close range, simply because they HAVE really short ttks... To compete and be better at that range shotguns have to be almost instakill right now.


Boring as hell. I'm a shotgun type of player who likes to CQC to clear out buildings, but I don't use OP crap. So no shotguns for me in PS2.

Remember when people complained about PS1 triple shot and quadshot Jackhammer? This is worse, despite of lack of wallhumping thirdperson players.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Depends. If he comes in your back, EI he see you but you don't see him. No you don't have time to turn around and then kill him. If he comes infront of you, you have time to react if you're alert.

The slow reload speed on shotguns balance it IMO. If you want to nerf them a bit I think its a better idea to lower the magazine size instead. But I don't see any need for it.



Are you sure about that? I just thought it was the Time To Kill some one with the weapon. BTW how do you measure TTK if you also including the approach too? What if I have sneeked around two buildings to come up behind his back that toock 2 minutes and then one shot him at close range with a bolt action sniper rifle. Does the rifles have a TTK of 2.01 minutes then?

No matter what definition you use - you just demonstrated that counting the time from when a shot gun starts shooting is comepletely meaninless with respect to balance.

[GuyShep]

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

If i've learnt anything from PSU, it's that TTK can mean whatever you want it to mean.

This. Before the game even had a closed alpha, people threw the term TTK all over the place, and suggested rather tiny or large numbers. There were moments where people suggested that TTK on most infantry weapons should be at least 6 seconds long.

@Ghoest9, TTK doesn't include engagement time, just how long it takes direct hits to kill as soon as you first hit the guy.

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

If you are complaining about shotgun - then you are a bad player.

Once the start shooting they kill very fast.

But TTK is based on when you first engage. Shotguns require moving into range. So if you are dying to them a lot you are either failing to kill people as they advance or you are letting people sneak up on you.

I used shotguns a great deal for a while. Now I use carbines mostly. Over all the carbine is a more effective weapon but situationally shotguns can be best.

Yeah Im a very bad player according to my K/D Ratio...inb4 K/D ratio means nothing.


I been playing since August Infantry only, mostly and I can tell you shotguns have huge edge inside buildings.


You mention how I have chances to kill them because in ur scenerio they are running towards me with a shotgun...That doesn't happen at all.

When you enter a building and a person with a shotgun is waiting for you, their is no time where he is closing distance and i have a chance to kill him.



This reminds me of people saying it was hard to blow up sundys with mines .....at least be honest and say is easy to get pratically instant kills with the shotguns

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Depends. If he comes in your back, EI he see you but you don't see him. No you don't have time to turn around and then kill him. If he comes infront of you, you have time to react if you're alert.

The slow reload speed on shotguns balance it IMO. If you want to nerf them a bit I think its a better idea to lower the magazine size instead. But I don't see any need for it.

No way.

Even if you face him off head to head...You won't kill him unless he completely misses which is a possibility but not really unless he isn't good at all.


Head to head shotgun vs Carbine/LMG/etc, the shotgun is gonna kill you super fast...I been in that situation a lot, they have a huge edge.

Hell shotguns kill me faster sometimes than I can activate my HA shield....thats how powerful they are close quarters.

Prefer PS1 Sweeper: beat rifles, but took skill to use since you had to be consistent over time.

Thing is, they gave them this short ttk because rifles have short ttks even at close range, simply because they HAVE really short ttks... To compete and be better at that range shotguns have to be almost instakill right now.


Boring as hell. I'm a shotgun type of player who likes to CQC to clear out buildings, but I don't use OP crap. So no shotguns for me in PS2.

Remember when people complained about PS1 triple shot and quadshot Jackhammer? This is worse, despite of lack of wallhumping thirdperson players.

Very True.

Is kind of hard to make the TTK higher for shotguns when all the other weapons have low ttk.....

I was thinking just making Heavy Assault with Shield, the standard TTK or slightly higher...I think that could fix things.

[Mordelicius]

Looks like their map design is inferior. This guy can't be flank. In Planetside 2. Every room has a flank. They got multiple doors, multiple stairs, a balcony with 1 or 2 doors, and lots of windows, making it harder to turtle.

We've already talked about this for the spawn room. The spawn room changes came from community feedback. The gameplay I see here is no different from spawn camping tiny doors.

I myself suggested double-width doors, multiple doors and even an open roof. Heck, they freaking delivered on those. That type of camping can't be done in Planetside 2 except from the Spawn room exit which they will replace in a couple of days.

Like I've said in those base design threads, the weakness of open base design is they makes aircraft and tanks dominant, thus making it hard to defend. I'd prefer more drastic changes to bases like the Tower-style, but I've seen those new twitter pics with added barriers and canopies.

[Badjuju]

There isn't too much you can do in a game with such a low TTK. They are either barely/not viable or OP in close quarters.

[Sifer2]

Every weapon has an unreactable TTK almost. There isn't a single weapon I can think of where if you see the other guy first, and start shooting him you wont kill him before he can turn around.

As for Shotguns in this game their range/damage is such that they are basically corner camping noob weapons, and not much else. I fear the new pump variants are going to be even more annoying as I guarantee they will be one hit kill bodyshots. If they are not no one will use them. If they are many will abuse them. That's the sad state of the game with such low TTK.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

Looks like their map design is inferior. This guy can't be flank. In Planetside 2. Every room has a flank. They got multiple doors, multiple stairs, a balcony with 1 or 2 doors, and lots of windows, making it harder to turtle.

We've already talked about this for the spawn room. The spawn room changes came from community feedback. The gameplay I see here is no different from spawn camping tiny doors.

I myself suggested double-width doors, multiple doors and even an open roof. Heck, they freaking delivered on those. That type of camping can't be done in Planetside 2 except from the Spawn room exit which they will replace in a couple of days.

Like I've said in those base design threads, the weakness of open base design is they makes aircraft and tanks dominant, thus making it hard to defend. I'd prefer more drastic changes to bases like the Tower-style, but I've seen those new twitter pics with added barriers and canopies.

Re: Infantry combat in Bio Labs, Tech plants and Amp stations;
Well the + side of current base designs are that 1 person can't easily hold of 4-5 guys as he can't be flanged. Current designs promote more team work and forces you to rely on your team mates to keep your back clear. In my book that's not a bad thing.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Sifer2

Every weapon has an unreactable TTK almost. There isn't a single weapon I can think of where if you see the other guy first, and start shooting him you wont kill him before he can turn around.

Yet I have manage to do that from time to time with every weapon. That is kill them before they kill me even though they saw me first and fired the first bullet. Ok it's not that often though. Maybe 1 time out 10. But what I try to say is that skill play in here too the weapons TTK in this game is not so high that it's impossible for anyone to not survive if some one see you before you see them, no matter what.

We also have to remember "FPS skills" are more then just accuracy. Situational awareness and tactical know how are also a part of player skill. If you die to a "camper" 9/10 times it's your own fault that he killed you. If you have moved more carefully and expect there is a enemy around every corner and in every bushes at all times the chances are allot higher that you would have killed the camper instead.

However I'm guilty of charging into rooms without checking if they are clear first too. But I never blame any one else then my self when I do that and get killed.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

If i've learnt anything from PSU, it's that TTK can mean whatever you want it to mean.

Well I come from the MMORPG world. Between 1998 and 2012 a overwhelmingly large majority of my gaming time have been devoted to those type of games. On those forums DPS, DD, nuke or what ever geek speak we use only have one meaning and if some one try to give there own defenition of a word they will quickly get allot of responses pointing out how little they know about anything. In the same way any one who would try to define the word salad-fork as following; A sphere object that are used to measure oil in airplanes, would get mocked because he don't know better.

But maybe it's because the MMORPG geek speak is allot older then MMORPGs. It origin from PnP games like D&D that first came out in 1974 so it have had it's time to establish a well known definition of what there terminology means.

But anway.... IMO it's better that we all try to stick to one definition of game mechanical terminology. If we don't we will just misunderstand each other and talk in circles.

[Koadster]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

So if you are dying to them a lot you are either failing to kill people as they advance or you are letting people sneak up on you.

I love retards like this who instantly go " omg L2P "

You only get 70' FOV compared to 180 in real life. With only a 70' fov to keep a 360' awareness especially against LAs its hard.

If its a head on battle and they open up, try and run off.. most people use the semi autos and dump thier mags as quick as possible, if you get away they now have to reload giving you the chance to kill them.