Theory: Bullet drop - Page 2

EASyEightyEight · 2011-08-09, 05:18 PM

Big numbers @_@

We all know they're just going to keep it simple: either everything drops at X distance, or VS weaponry goes straight but phases out abruptly at X range.

As long as my bullets dealing full damage the whole way instead of 50% of their normal damage by 100m, we might actually see them used as a mainstay weapon outside of Oshur for a change. 'Cause right now, it's either the bolt driver or the HA, depending on if you're planning on hanging back or bolting from cover to cover to reach the base wall, which happens to be within spitting distance of the tree line.

Peacemaker · 2011-08-09, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

What weapon have you seen that produce a bullet's velocity at 2000 feet a fucking second? It takes 1.2 seconds to hit a 300 meter target with an m4.

Also, in terms of realism... Bullets do not go "((" Boom -------_______"))"

They go "((" Boom _____-----______
____3600 Meters MAXIMUM"))" m16a2

I love people who just make shit up. An M4 Assault Rifle uses the Nato 5.56mm x 54mm Full Metal Jacket 63 grain bullet. Average FPS from this round when it leaves the barrel of a carbine is around 3100 FPS. 300 yards = 900 feet give or take. 900 / 3100 = .29 seconds. For an m4 round to take 1.2 seconds to hit (assuming that the round maintains a constant velocity, which it does not it slows considerably after 500 yards) You would have to be shooting at a target in excess of 1250 yards. Well outside the range of the 5.56 round, which is reliable to at max 800 yards. In reality with the bullet slowing down you would probably have a 5.56 round take 1.2 seconds to hit a target at about 900ish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO <--- Proof

PLEASE don't try to BS your way through the internet.

Also, NO Bullets do NOT go up and then come back down. Gun sights are zeroed in at ranges other than 0 meters. They are sighted so that anything UNDER the range they are sighted for would result in the bullet striking above the desired inpact point. For example, if you took a scoped rifle sighted for 200 yards and shot at 50 yards aiming dead center, your impact point is going to be an inch or so high. Sights and scopes are pointed down towards the barrel, not parallel. In reality the impact point on a rifle sighted in at 200 yards would also intersect the path of the bullet somewhere else down the line as it starts to drop. For a bullet to go up and then come back down it would need to produce lift. They do not, they fall as soon as they leave the barrel.

Also I have no idea what 3600 meters max M16A2 means, but no M16 fires ANYWHERE near 3200 meters. Thats a 1.5 mile shot. Which is roughly the record for the longest kill ever which was made with a .338 Lapula Magnum round, NOT a 5.56mm Nato.

Redneck Gun Nut Owned.

Quovatis · 2011-08-09, 05:24 PM

I do know how the coriolis force works. It was a joke mainly. However, slow velocity, high mass shots like a cannon round or shells from a battleship suffer greatly from the coriolis force. A popular story from the Falkland Island war in the 80s between the UK and Argentina goes that the UK didn't calibrate their guns to the southern hemisphere (where the direction of the force is opposite), so the first few shots they fired missed by several ships lengths. They quickly corrected the error, however.

Goku · 2011-08-09, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

PS: I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to measure the deflection caused by gravity across the effective range using a micrometer.

Oh hell, lets do some math.
1) The speed of light is 3,000,000 miles per second (give or take). Three Million miles per second.

I am just going to assume this is sarcasm

.

Peacemaker · 2011-08-09, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

I do know how the coriolis force works. It was a joke mainly. However, slow velocity, high mass shots like a cannon round or shells from a battleship suffer greatly from the coriolis force. A popular story from the Falkland Island war in the 80s between the UK and Argentina goes that the UK didn't calibrate their guns to the southern hemisphere (where the direction of the force is opposite), so the first few shots they fired missed by several ships lengths. They quickly corrected the error, however.

Coriolis force isn't a "force" at all. Its just the world turning under the object in question. Low velocity long range projectiles are more affected because there is more time for the earth to move under them.

Seriously if you really wanted to go into details about ballistics of rifle bullets theres a slew of things you need. Spin drift for example, a bullet spins due to rifling, this causes the bullet to carry "up and to the left" in extreme range shots its seen. This doesn't mean that the bullet goes up, its still dropping, but it travels to the left and at the end of the ballistic chart the drop slows down. That's just one example. Humidity, Altitude, Temp, Where you are actually located on earth, curvature of the earth, and Angle of Attack Relative to the target. So PLEASE, unless your a military trained sniper or like me and looked it all up and figured it all out, just get back to the topic at hand

Soothsayer · 2011-08-09, 06:10 PM

You guys are out of control... Higby, we need info or this is gonna get ugly!

Quovatis · 2011-08-09, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

So PLEASE, unless your a military trained sniper or like me and looked it all up and figured it all out, just get back to the topic at hand

Seriously? I have a degree in physics, so I think I know a thing or two on the subject, so no need to lecture me. It was a joke anyway, so I'll leave it there.

SKYeXile · 2011-08-09, 06:41 PM

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE USING IMPERIAL FOR MEASURMENT!?!?!

Peacemaker · 2011-08-09, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

Seriously? I have a degree in physics, so I think I know a thing or two on the subject, so no need to lecture me. It was a joke anyway, so I'll leave it there.

wasnt really talking to you :P Except for the first part. My bad, haha, I was simply still annoyed at that other guy. I really like guns

NapalmEnima · 2011-08-09, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE USING IMPERIAL FOR MEASURMENT!?!?!

Because I live in the USA, and that's what we use here?

Muzzle velocity on some common weapons:
M16A1: 3,110 ft/s
AK-47: 2,400 ft/s
30-06: 2.5k - 2.9k ft/s depending on the round
Styer AUG: 3,182 ft/s

Now all that is MUZZLE velocity, the speed at which the bullet is traveling as it leaves the barrel. That's as fast as it'll ever be. They decelerate. I Promise. By how much really does depend on things like air pressure, wind direction, and so forth.

PS: A tank's APDS round can reach something like 5700 ft/sec.

To hit something at the same altitude as a weapon's muzzle, that weapon must point its barrel up a bit, and lob the round onto its target (even if only by X feet at Y hundred yards). So ___-----___ is accurate.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-09, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ridill

No kids. Light does not travel in a straight line. It is affected by the curvature of space and time. Ever heard of Einstein??? Period. Fucking. Dot.

The state of your education is worrying. Thankfully others have pointed out your errors so I don't have to.

I'm all for bullet drop on all weapons it should not reasonably apply too, along with a more reasonable damage degradation with range. Make compensating for the drop what is necessary to be effective at those long ranges, not a magical lessening of energy.

As for vanu weapons: They should not have no bullet drop. They are still shooting matter, and that would still suffer from the effects of gravity. Shot speed is what you want to flatten out the arc. A lashers orbs would should have lobbed like softballs. A lancer and mag railgun should have had a noticeable arc, though being fast projectiles it would not have been much.

If its not a laser, or perhaps a railgun with hypersonic bullets, there must be arc.

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE USING IMPERIAL FOR MEASURMENT!?!?!

People from other countries oft give those in the US shit for not knowing other languages. Learn to use more than one measuring system. The simple conversions are easy, and you can derive the rest.

Baneblade · 2011-08-09, 07:49 PM

Bullet drop is just the new cof.

Sirisian · 2011-08-09, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Bullet drop is just the new cof.

I want both.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-09, 08:20 PM

bullets dont just go out the barrel then start going down... it actually dips down as soon as it leaves the barrel then it starts to climb up and then falls down.... no bs

Baneblade · 2011-08-09, 08:45 PM

Code:

Cartridge (Wb@MV)	Bullet BC	100 yds.	200 yds.	MRT@yds.	MPBR (yds.)
.17 HMR (17 SP at 2550)	.123	+1.5"	-5.5"	1.5"@100	165
.17 Rem. (20 V-MAX at 4200)	.185	+1.1"	+1.0"	1.5"@150	275
.204 Ruger (33 BT at 4225)	.185	+1.1"	+1.0"	1.5"@150	275
.218 Bee (45 SP at 2800)	.202	+1.6"	-1.5"	1.5"@125	200
.22 LR (40 HP at 1255)	.100	-3.0"	-40.9"	1.5"@45	90
.22 WMR (40 HP at 1910)	.100	+0.5"	-19.0"	1.5"@65	123
.222 Rem. (50 Sp at 3140)	.220	+1.4"	-0.4"	1.5"@118	222
.223 Rem. (45 Sp at 3550)	.167	+1.4"	+0.2"	1.5"@130	235
.223 Rem. (55 SP at 3240)	.235	+1.4"	+/- 0"	1.5"@120	230
.22-250 Rem. (50 V-MAX at 3700)	.242	+1.3"	+0.8"	1.5"@140	260
.22-250 Rem. (55 SP at 3600)	.235	+1.3"	+0.6"	1.5"@135	254
.220 Swift (50 V-MAX at 3800)	.242	+1.2"	+0.8"	1.5"@140	265
.220 Swift (55 SP at 3800)	.235	+1.2"	+0.9"	1.5"@140	264
.223 WSSM (55 SP at 3800)	.235	+1.2"	+0.9"	1.5"@140	264
.243 Win. (80 Sp at 3350)	.255	+1.3"	+0.2"	1.5"@125	237
.243 Win. (95 BT at 3100)*	.379	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@150	300
.243 Win. (100 Sp at 2960)	.351	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@140	283
6mm Rem. (100 Sp at 3100)	.351	+2.5"	+2.2"	3"@150	296
.243 WSSM (100 Sp at 3100)	.351	+2.5"	+2.2"	3"@150	296
6x62mm Freres (100 Sp at 3300)	.351	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	312
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 Sp at 3400)	.351	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@160	322
.25-20 Win. (86 FP at 1460)	.190	+1.7"	-19.1"	3"@65	139
.25-35 Win. (117 RN at 2300)	.238	+2.9"	-1.7"	3"@108	212
.250 Sav. (100 Sp at 2820)	.336	+2.7"	+1.6"	3"@125	270
.257 Roberts (100 Sp at 3000)	.336	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@150	286
.257 Roberts (120 Sp at 2780)	.391	+2.7"	+1.6"	3"@125	271
.25 WSSM (120 Sp at 2990)	.391	+2.5"	+2.0"	3"@145	291
.25-06 Rem. (100 Sp at 3210)	.336	+2.5"	+2.4"	3"@150	305
.25-06 Rem. (120 Sp at 2990)	.391	+2.5"	+2.0"	3"@145	291
.257 Wby. Mag. (100 Sp at 3600)	.336	+2.2"	+2.8"	3"@175	337
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 Sp at 3305)	.391	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@155	317
6.5x55 (125 NP at 2875)	.449	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@135	284
6.5x55 (140 Sp at 2645)	.435	+2.7"	+1.2"	3"@125	260
.260 Rem. (120 Sp at 2890)	.433	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@135	284
.260 Rem. (140 Sp at 2750)	.435	+2.7"	+1.6"	3"@125	271
6.5-284 Norma (140 PSP at 2900)	.435	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	286
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 Sp at 3210)	.433	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	312
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (140 PSP at 2900)	.435	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	286
6.5x68 S (140 Sp at 2990)	.435	+2.6"	+2.1"	3"@150	294
.264 Win. Mag. (120 Sp at 3300)	.433	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@160	321
.264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp at 3100)	.435	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@150	303
6.8mm Rem. SPC (110 BTSP at 2500)	.360	+2.9"	+0.5"	3"@125	243
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 Sp at 2800)	.325	+2.6"	+1.3"	3"@130	267
.270 Win. (130 Sp at 3140)	.416	+2.5"	+2.4"	3"@150	305
.270 Win. (140 AB at 2950)	.496	+2.6"	+2.1"	3"@140	293
.270 Win. (150 Sp at 2900)	.481	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@138	287
.270 WSM (130 Sp at 3206)	.416	+2.4"	+2.4"	3"@150	311
.270 WSM (150 Sp at 3150)	.481	+2.5"	+2.4"	3"@150	311
.270 Wby. Mag. (130 Sp at 3375)	.416	+2.3"	+2.6"	3"@150	326
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 Sp at 3245)	.481	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@160	320
7x57 (140 BT at 2660)	.485	+2.7"	+1.3"	3"@125	264
7x57 (175 Sp at 2540)	.519	+2.8"	+1.0"	3"@125	256
7mm-08 Rem. (120 Sp at 3000)	.343	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	287
7mm-08 Rem. (140 BT at 2860)	.485	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@140	285
7x64 (140 BT at 3000)	.485	+2.6"	+2.2"	3"@150	298
.280 Rem. (140 BT at 3000)	.485	+2.6"	+2.2"	3"@150	298
.280 Rem. (160 Sp at 2890)	.475	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@140	287
7mm SAUM (150 Sp at 3110)	.456	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@150	305
7mm WSM (150 Sp at 3200)	.456	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	314
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 BT at 3150)	.485	+2.5"	+2.4"	3"@150	310
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 Sp at 3110)	.456	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@150	305
7mm Rem. Mag. (160 Sp at 2950)	.475	+2.6"	+2.1"	3"@140	292
7mm Wby. Mag. (154 SP at 3260)	.433	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	317
7mm Wby. Mag. (160 Sp at 3200)	.475	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	314
7mm STW (160 Sp at 3185)	.475	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	313
7mm Ultra Mag (160 Sp at 3200)	.475	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	314
.30 Carbine (110 RN at 1990)	.144	+2.8"	-8.2"	3"@85	171
.30-30 Win. (150 FP at 2390)	.268	+2.9"	-0.6"	3"@110	225
.30-30 Win. (160 Evo at 2400)	.330	+2.9"	-0.2"	3"@110	232
.30-30 Win. (170 FP at 2200)	.304	+2.9"	-1.8"	3"@105	211
.300 Sav. (150 BT at 2630)	.435	+2.8"	+1.2"	3"@125	259
.307 Win. (150 FP at 2600)	.268	+2.8"	+0.5"	3"@120	243
.308 Marlin (160 EVO at 2660)*	.400	+2.8"	+1.2"	3"@130	261
.308 Win. (150 BT at 2800)	.435	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@135	275
.308 Win. (165 Sp at 2700)	.410	+2.7"	+1.3"	3"@130	264
.308 Win. (180 Sp at 2610)	.483	+2.8"	+1.2"	3"@125	259
.30-06 (150 BT at 2910)	.435	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@145	287
.30-06 (165 Sp at 2800)	.410	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@135	273
.30-06 (180 Sp at 2700)	.483	+2.7"	+1.5"	3"@125	269
.300 SAUM (165 Sp at 3075)	.410	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@145	300
.300 WSM (150 BT at 3300)	.435	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@150	321
.300 WSM (180 Sp at 2970)	.483	+2.6"	+2.2"	3"@150	294
.300 Win. Mag. (150 BT at 3300)	.435	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@150	321
.300 Win. Mag. (165 Sp at 3120)	.410	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@145	303
.300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp at 3070)	.483	+2.5"	+2.3"	3"@150	303
.300 H&H Mag. (180 Sp at 2880)	.483	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	286
.300 Wby. Mag. (150 BT at 3540)	.435	+2.2"	+2.8"	3"@170	343
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 Sp at 3250)	.483	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@155	320
.300 Ultra Mag (180 Sp at 3250)	.483	+2.4"	+2.6"	3"@155	320
.30-378 Wby. Mag. (180 Sp at 3420)	.483	+2.3"	+2.7"	3"@160	336
7.62x39 (123 Sp at 2365)	.292	+2.9"	-0.5"	3"@110	225
.303 British (150 Sp at 2723)	.411	+2.8"	+1.5"	3"@130	267
.303 British (180 RN at 2460)	.328	+2.9"	+0.1"	3"@115	237
7.65x53 (180 RN at 2400)	.328	+2.9"	+0.4"	3"@115	241
.32 Spec. (170 FP at 2250)	.297	+3.0"	-1.3"	3"@105	215
8x57JS (150 Sp at 2900)	.369	+2.6"	+1.9"	3"@135	280
8x57JS (200 Sp at 2650)	.426	+2.8"	+1.2"	3"@125	260
.325 WSM (180 Sp at 2975)	.394	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	289
.325 WSM (220 Sp at 2840)	.383	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@130	276
8x68 S (150 Sp at 3300)	.369	+2.4"	+2.5"	3"@150	316
8x68S (220 Sp at 2800)	.448	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@135	277
8mm Rem. Mag. (200 Sp at 2900)	.426	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@138	284
.338 Marlin Express (200 FTX at 2565)*	.430	+2.8"	+0.9"	3"@125	254
.338 Federal (180 BT at 2830)	.372	+2.7"	+1.6"	3"@135	274
.338 Federal (200 Sp at 2400)	.448	+2.9"	+0.3"	3"@115	240
.338 Federal (210 Sp at 2630)	.400	+2.8"	+1.1"	3"@120	258
.338-06 (200 BT at 2800)	.414	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@135	274
.338 Win. Mag. (200 BT at 2960)	.414	+2.6"	+2.1"	3"@150	289
.338 Win. Mag. (225 Sp at 2780)*	.454	+2.7"	+1.8"	3"@138	274
.338 Win. Mag. (250 Sp at 2700)	.473	+2.7"	+1.4"	3"@126	268
.338 Ultra Mag (250 Sp at 2860)	.473	+2.7"	+1.9"	3"@140	285
.338 Lapua Mag. (225 Sp at 3000)	.454	+2.6"	+2.2"	3"@150	296
.338-378 Wby. Mag. (250 Sp at 3000)	.473	+2.6"	+2.2"	3"@150	297
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 Sp at 2941)	.473	+2.6"	+2.1"	3"@150	291
.348 Win (200 FP at 2520)	.246	+2.9"	-0.1"	3"@115	233
.357 Mag. (158 FP at 1830)	.158	+2.7"	-10.5"	3"@85	163
.35 Rem. (200 RN at 2080)	.180	+2.9"	-5.1"	3"@93	186
.356 Win. (200 RN at 2400)	.180	+2.9"	-1.8"	3"@108	211
.358 Win. (200 Sp at 2520)	.295	+2.9"	+0.3"	3"@115	239
.35 Whelen (200 Sp at 2700)	.295	+2.8"	+1.0"	3"@125	254
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 Sp at 2775)	.295	+2.7"	+1.3"	3"@125	260
.350 Rem. Mag. (225 NP at 2550)	.430	+2.8"	+0.8"	3"@120	253
.350 Rem. Mag. (250 SP at 2500)	.409	+2.8"	+0.5"	3"@120	246
9.3x62 (270 SSp at 2550)	.361	+2.8"	+0.7"	3"@125	247
9.3x62 (286 SP-RP at 2360)	.410	+3.0"	+/- 0"	3"@110	234
9.3x74R (286 SP-RP at 2360)	.410	+3.0"	+/- 0"	3"@110	234
.375 Win. (220 FP at 2012)	.231	+2.9"	-4.7"	3"@91	187
.375 H&H Mag. (270 SP at 2690)	.380	+2.7"	+1.3"	3"@130	260
.375 H&H Mag. (300 Sp at 2550)	.398	+2.8"	+0.8"	3"@125	250
.375 Wby. Mag. (300 Sp at 2800)	.398	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@125	273
.375 Ultra Mag (300 SP at 2800)	.398	+2.7"	+1.7"	3"@125	273
.376 Steyr (270 SP at 2550)	.380	+2.8"	+0.7"	3"@115	248
.378 Wby. Mag. (300 Sp at 2935)	.398	+2.6"	+2.0"	3"@140	285
.404 Jeffery (400 RN at 2150)	.322	+3.0"	-2.1"	3"@100	207
.405 Win. (300 FP at 2200)	.225	+2.9"	-2.8"	3"@100	203
.416 Rigby (400 RN at 2400)	.316	+2.9"	-0.1"	3"@115	231
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 RN at 2400)	.316	+2.9"	-0.1"	3"@115	231
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 RN at 2650)	.316	+2.8"	+0.9"	3"@125	253
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 FP at 1760)	.165	+2.6"	-11.6"	3"@75	159
.44 Rem. Mag. (275 FP at 1580)	.199	+2.2"	-14.7"	3"@75	149
.444 Marlin (240 FP at 2350)	.165	+3.0"	-2.6"	3"@100	203
.444 Marlin (265 RN at 2200)	.191	+3.0"	-3.3"	3"@100	197
.45-70 (300 HP at 1800)	.197	+2.7"	-9.2"	3"@85	166
.45-70 (350 RN at 1900)	.189	+2.9"	-7.6"	3"@85	174
.45-70 (405 FP at 1330)	.214	+1.3"	-22.9"	3"@65	131
.450 Marlin (350 RN at 2100)	.189	+3.0"	-4.5"	3"@100	189
.458 Win. Mag. (350 RN at 2100)	.189	+3.0"	-4.5"	3"@100	189
.458 Win. Mag. (500 RN at 2100)	.295	+3.0"	-2.9"	3"@100	200
.458 Lott (500 RN at 2300)	.295	+2.9"	-1.0"	3"@110	219
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 RN at 2600)	.295	+2.8"	+0.6"	3"@116	246
.470 N.E. (500 RN at 2150)	.321	+3.0"	-2.1"	3"@100	207
.480 Ruger (325 FN at 1450)	.150	+1.5"	-22.1"	3"@68	134
.50 BMG (750 Sp at 2700)	1.07	+2.6"	+1.8"	3"@135	281

Source