Warning, very unpopular opinion! Why kill-cam desperately needs to return

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by ketarakh

Though I find killcams a little bit too much for this game, I think than newbies must have some sort of info on how and from where they were shot. For example when you die and while you are falling on the ground your camera turns for 2-3 seconds in the direction where the guy that killed you was standing. Some sort of advanced "hit direction detector" UI thingy.

I'm inclined to agree with Rolfski, but the above suggestion strikes me as an excellent compromise. Freeze frame, turn the camera towards what killed you, and maybe zoom a little bit (x2? x3?). Gives you at least a chance to figure out where you were killed from.

It wouldn't give away all the detailed intel regarding AMS, etc. that some people seem to be worried about, but it would help new players get an idea where they're being camped from.

And really, this game (like PS1 before it) does have a very steep learning curve. It's a lot more complicated than most shooters, and even simple things like LA-sitting-in-a-tree seem to confuse the hell out of a lot of players.

It's easy to say that newbs should just learn to play, but the risk here is that if that learning curve is too steep, they won't ever bother and they'll just quit instead. Like it or not, we *need* new players to keep joining and enjoying this game if we want it to survive, and that means making some compromises to make it accessible.

[camycamera]

why there should not be kill cams:

what people have said. compromises various positions, and gives the victim an unfair advantage.

it is okay for a game like CoD, or even Battlefield, because those games are not as big or persistent as PS2.



imagine this scenario:

if PS2 had the killcam back, imagine a sniper who has found a great spot to snipe a large enemy column. he kills one guy, then the other guy then says to his teammates "hey, there is a sniper in position x!"
can you imagine the shitstorm that would head toward that poor sniper's position? he would die pretty much instantly.

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I'm inclined to agree with Rolfski, but the above suggestion strikes me as an excellent compromise. Freeze frame, turn the camera towards what killed you, and maybe zoom a little bit (x2? x3?). Gives you at least a chance to figure out where you were killed from.

No. This is just as bad. Learn to play it really is not hard.

It wouldn't give away all the detailed intel regarding AMS, etc. that some people seem to be worried about, but it would help new players get an idea where they're being camped from.

No. It will tell all players where they got shot from TS"Hey guys i'm dead again hes over to the north north east on that rock thing" It will lower the skill gap between the good players and those that cant be arsed to learn to play.

And really, this game (like PS1 before it) does have a very steep learning curve. It's a lot more complicated than most shooters, and even simple things like LA-sitting-in-a-tree seem to confuse the hell out of a lot of players.

The is no steep learning curve, this game is not hard and no part of it is difficult to grasp. It takes a little bit of effort for anyone that can get by in day to day life without dribbling into their cornflakes or getting hit by a bus. Most other FPS games are attractive to contards only and hold their attention for 12 months before they change the scenery and increment the number on the box by 1 and call it a new game, these are games made for ADD kiddies to play for 2 hours every few days

It's easy to say that newbs should just learn to play, but the risk here is that if that learning curve is too steep, they won't ever bother and they'll just quit instead. Like it or not, we *need* new players to keep joining and enjoying this game if we want it to survive, and that means making some compromises to make it accessible.

No if you want it to survive you need to stop dumbing it any further down than it already is. Providing a challenge to the game play provides something to strive for and allows there to be a measurable distance between the class of players

Scrub contard kiddie
Smarter contard kiddie
Newb player
Smarter newb player
Dumb player with good aim
Smart player with crap aim
Smart player with good aim
Really smart player with average aim
Really smart player with good aim

So what if those that find it hard leave, good riddance. This is a free to play game a certain percentage will appreciate the game and its array of different mechanics and will stick around the ones that leave... hey that one less idiot to shoot you in the back or ignore you when you need repairing or healing etc etc. The game has already started to progress in the right direction lets not ruin that by making veteran players (ps1 vets and those from the beginning of the game) leave because if you do, that will be the death knell this game is nothing without strong communities (outfits)

If anything this game needs more complexity.

Gash

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

"I die all the time! How do I progress fastest?"
.

Find an outfit and learn to operate as a group. If you're not running with a minimum of 2 squads (24 players) you're doomed to die all the time or ride the zerg wave.

No kill cam needed. Players need to stop treating PS2 as if it was COD and think they are a one man army.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by camycamera

imagine this scenario:

if PS2 had the killcam back, imagine a sniper who has found a great spot to snipe a large enemy column. he kills one guy, then the other guy then says to his teammates "hey, there is a sniper in position x!"
can you imagine the shitstorm that would head toward that poor sniper's position? he would die pretty much instantly.

That's why you move, you have this cloak for a good reason.
The typically used argument that finding a good farming spot/ hidey hole is an acquired skill that should reward the player by ranking up kills and stay undetected, is exactly what's causing this game to be such a horrible farming fest.

There's no risk vs reward here. The game does not give any decent feedback about what's killing you and you die fast, which gives farmers basically a carte blanche to continue with impunity at hardly any risk.
It promotes the wrong game play (why going for the objective if farming yields you way more certs?) and increasingly widens the gap for new players to overcome with every map that gets added to the game.

Originally Posted by camycamera

it is okay for a game like CoD, or even Battlefield, because those games are not as big or persistent as PS2.

That is exactly why you even need this even more compared to COD or BF: This game is just way too chaotic and big to get your head around all the camping spots and ways.

As an experienced farmer you shouldn't be too worried about kill-cam like mechanics in this game anyway. You either stay at your camping spot and still typically rack up more than enough kills before its getting too risky or stay mobile and move to another of the million camping spots this game provides. The crazy, cluster fuck battle flow of this game always guarantees you an angle to get a drop on people and kill them before they realize what's hitting them.

The kill-cam in COD didn't stop campers, nor will it in this game. But at least you can learn now from your game play.

[Ertwin]

The flash of red shows which direction shots are coming from, so whenever you die, you should have a good idea of where the kill shot came from.

[ketarakh]

"Newbs should suffer" and "Good riddance" attitudes is bad for every multiplayer game and eventually lead to single server populated with hardcore nolifers with maxed out BR. Which is actually not bad for them but frustrating for everyone else. Like late PS1.

[almalino]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

That's why you move, you have this cloak for a good reason.
The typically used argument that finding a good farming spot/ hidey hole is an acquired skill that should reward the player by ranking up kills and stay undetected, is exactly what's causing this game to be such a horrible farming fest.

Really? Farming with a sniper is pretty hard usually when column is on the move.

NO!!! to kill cam. I, actually, like snipers who kills me from unknown locations because it make me think where and how I move around next time I spawn. Kill cam will just eliminate that element for surprise for the both parts.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

There's no risk vs reward here. The game does not give any decent feedback about what's killing you and you die fast, which gives farmers basically a carte blanche to continue with impunity at hardly any risk.
It promotes the wrong game play (why going for the objective if farming yields you way more certs?) and increasingly widens the gap for new players to overcome with every map that gets added to the game.

I disagree with this. You get enough feedback from the game to know where the dude was when he killed you. If you're some what familiar with the map, paying attention to damage indicators and know the enemies weapons pros and cons you will be able to know where the shot came from. Maybe not exactly but at least with in 10m radius. At least I can and if I can a large majority of players should be able to do that too.

But you're right in one point that PS2 is not a very noob friendly game. If you're coming from COD and only played this game for 10'ish hours your quite fucked. But I don't see a way to change that without ruin the game for every one else that played this game for more then a week.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by almalino

Really? Farming with a sniper is pretty hard usually when column is on the move.

NO!!! to kill cam. I, actually, like snipers who kills me from unknown locations because it make me think where and how I move around next time I spawn. Kill cam will just eliminate that element for surprise for the both parts.

This is not about sniping only. The most ugly farming mechanics come with other weapons actually: Shooting your Prowler at a tower from a distance, endless noob tubing from an elevated spot, Harrassing with a Marauder, etc etc.
And kill cam doesn't eliminate surprise, by the time you have watched the footage and respawned, a good sniper should already have moved to another location.
I agree that sniping is not that easy in this game but this has more to do with low bullet speeds and wide distances in this game.

Originally Posted by Ertwin

The flash of red shows which direction shots are coming from, so whenever you die, you should have a good idea of where the kill shot came from.

Originally Posted by Sunrock

I disagree with this. You get enough feedback from the game to know where the dude was when he killed you. If you're some what familiar with the map, paying attention to damage indicators and know the enemies weapons pros and cons you will be able to know where the shot came from.

The current dead feedback just doesn't cut it. Red flash indicators don't help you much if you die in an instance. Neither does a mini map full of red dots in a typical frantic fight and sound doesn't help too much either if it's all gunfire and explosives around you. It's just not enough for newer players to help them improve.

[Hmr85]

[PredatorFour]

Yes its unpopular i.e. probably only you that wants it


SAY NO TO KILL CAMS!
SAY YES TO HOT PANTS!

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Ertwin

The flash of red shows which direction shots are coming from, so whenever you die, you should have a good idea of where the kill shot came from.

^ This. I say no to the type of kill cam you are asking for as well. Just watch the hit detection indicator and next time you spawn look in that direction while hiding. Watch for the shooter in that direction and you'll find him. Simples....

[Hmr85]

I have to agree with everyone else. We had a huge discussion about this wayyyy back when during tech test and it was 20+ pages long. Kill cam is a absolute NO for me.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by ketarakh

"Newbs should suffer" and "Good riddance" attitudes is bad for every multiplayer game and eventually lead to single server populated with hardcore nolifers with maxed out BR. Which is actually not bad for them but frustrating for everyone else. Like late PS1.

Agreed.

I can certainly see the point about giving players more information about what killed them and what they did wrong, besides just playing. Of course a lot of new players are going to be confused the first time they get drop podded in, at least it doesn't drop you in automatically anymore (?).
You drop in, get killed and the only information you have as to what killed you is the death screen. You don't want new players just quitting out of frustration.
I also agree that there are a lot of angles from where someone can kill you, a lot of angles. That of course is mostly about level design.

A killcam would make it harder for someone to camp on a tower, or in other hiding spots in bases. It would show you where exactly an infil sniped you from (Not sure that's even nessecary given how it's not that hard to figure out, given enough experience of course. Which new players probably don't have.) A killcam wouldn't nessecarily make someone able to avoid getting camped, just because you know what to look for doesn't mean you can do anything abou it.
It would also make silencers useless (Unless using it would remove the killcam) and make it a lot harder for groups to pull off sneak attacks.
It would make using trees or other places of cover where you can't freely move around a lot less valid.
I could see one thing becoming a real problem; the death cam being used as a reconnaissance tool, which might hurt outfit and squad gameplay.
If you're being farmed by an organized group or a zerg then knowing where you were killed from isn't going to be much of a help, then again you would probably already know where they are.

I don't see any really compelling arguments for the use of a killcam to provide players with more information about how they died, but I do agree that giving players more information would be a good thing as I see PS2 at times being a very frustrating experience, epsecially for new players.
So basicly, I somewhat agree with the premise but not the proposed solution. I don't see the positives of the killcam outweighing the negatives.