Outfit member Cap - Page 2

Stardouser · 2012-04-02, 10:57 PM

What's the most coordinated assault on a defended area you've ever seen? i.e., a 40 tank/APC convoy rolling in, and just before they get there, your bombers sweep in and decimate the enemy armor...that kind of thing.

SKYeXile · 2012-04-02, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dart

Fortunately for the rest of is then, that no Outfit ever managed to combine them! Time will tell if anyone can crack it the second time around...

oh i think some might have got organisation down, in the sense of how lemmings organise themselves in a straight line and follow the lead guy.

Have you seen all those zergfit videos where they get all their members to lineup? pro organisation.

Dart · 2012-04-02, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

oh i think some might have got organisation down, in the sense of how lemmings organise themselves in a straight line and follow the lead guy.

For sure, but as far as I'm concerned "everyone drop/driver/run/swim/walk/fly/HART to WP1 isn't "superior organisation".

Knocky · 2012-04-02, 11:09 PM

We field 4-6 squads on our most popular OPs night.

This is less then half of our active members.

Less then a third of all people on in the last 30 days.

Everyone will not be on at the same time.

There will be plenty of Outfits scrounging for any warm body they can find once this thing goes live.

So as you can see ,we need no limits.

SKYeXile · 2012-04-02, 11:13 PM

Hey im all for the zerfits, if it weren't for them welcoming new players to PS, teaching them the basics, then FC would have no developing and/or good players to poach

Dart · 2012-04-02, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Knocky

We field 4-6 squads on our most popular OPs night.

This is less then half of our active members.

Less then a third of all people on in the last 30 days.

Everyone will not be on at the same time.

There will be plenty of Outfits scrounging for any warm body they can find once this thing goes live.

So as you can see ,we need no limits.

If all goes well population sizes (and obviously the active playerbase) will dramatically exacted anything you saw in PS1. Comparisons between the two will be redundant. I wouldn't be surprised to see Outfits with 200+ members alike. That's fine by me tho, small Outfits like ours will need some fodder to sharpen our teeth on!

Hmr85 · 2012-04-02, 11:19 PM

No outfit cap please. We do not need 50 versions of the same outfit. If they can field 200+ more power to them.

ArcIyte · 2012-04-02, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Hey im all for the zerfits, if it weren't for them welcoming new players to PS, teaching them the basics, then FC would have no developing and/or good players to poach

Indeed. Those towers aren't going to hack themselves.

SKYeXile · 2012-04-02, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

Indeed. Those towers aren't going to hack themselves.

^^

The mind of a zergfit member, cant comprehend we do what they do, simply faster, more efficiently and with a fraction of the people....and blanket the leaderboard with kills while at it.

EVILPIG · 2012-04-03, 12:35 AM

I find the commentary here laughable. It just shows that many of you never got to experience organization on a massive scale. Coordinating different types of units to work together and support an objective goes far beyond moving in a straight line. And as for quality of player, we've had as many "1337" players as "1337'fits" + all of our "decent" guys, directing those who were just trying to put in their effort. We rolled other forces, "1337" or not. This is where they really get their feelings hurt. Worst part for them is that they expect me as their leader to be the worst of them when I i turn have pwnd most all of them. The only ones I didn't get to pwn at some time or another were not around anymore after the merges.

So you tell me, what is better? A group of 10 "1337" guys? Or a group of 10 "1337" guys + all their back up?

ArcIyte · 2012-04-03, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

^^

The mind of a zergfit member, cant comprehend we do what they do, simply faster, more efficiently and with a fraction of the people....and blanket the leaderboard with kills while at it.

I know what you do, I was in SG, playing the same way alongside some of the best players in the game. Your success depends on outfits like The Enclave or Sturmgrenadier not showing up and kicking over the interfarm sandcastle you've built.

Don't get me wrong, you're good players. When it comes down to what really matters though, taking territory, you're not going to be able to defeat the zerg because you won't have the numbers to defeat the common rabble.

Zerging may be what modern PS1 outfits do, but you can't simply write off 5+ gals dropping men and simultaneously taking key points of a base as "zerging".

SKYeXile · 2012-04-03, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

I know what you do, I was in SG, playing the same way alongside some of the best players in the game. Your success depends on outfits like The Enclave or Sturmgrenadier not showing up and kicking over the interfarm sandcastle you've built.

Don't get me wrong, you're good players. When it comes down to what really matters though, taking territory, you're not going to be able to defeat the zerg because you won't have the numbers to defeat the common rabble.

Zerging may be what modern PS1 outfits do, but you can't simply write off 5+ gals dropping men and simultaneously taking key points of a base as "zerging".

Its going to be much easier to take on larger numbers in PS1 than PS2 though, the first of them been TTK, its much lower now. In PS1 you would simply get overwhelmed... because you cant kill them fast enough, the avg TTK going to go down from around 1.4sec to probably under .5, its going to be a huge difference.

You then add in that you don't need to repair your shields and light assaults can drop ammo so you never runout, along with medics that can in theory heal you very quickly once the combat is over, its going to be a lot easier for smaller forces now to zergbust.

also, our success is from outfits like the strumgrenaider or the enclave showing up, we dont care if we lose a base, getting 100 kills in 30min is winning.

ArcIyte · 2012-04-03, 01:24 AM

the capture mechanic shown is nothing like the final capture mechanic. There won't be a single capture terminal, there will be a more distributed gameplay where each team has to attack and hold control nodes to maintain influence on the facility. We didn't have any of that stuff on display at GDC, but you'll get to play it in beta and we'll be adjusting based on feedback there.

Shorter TTK also works against you. Even the baddest of bads is going to land a few shots. You're also forgetting everything else that is different in PS2. You're going to have to split your forces between 5 to 7 facility nodes. A small leetfit is not going to be able to resecure a base unless it's a small ghost hack force. The same can be said for taking it.

With squad spawning, knocking out the enemy respawn point won't be as easy as taking the tower/find the CY AMS like it was in PS1. You also have to hack the independent spawn room.

I would say it's going to be harder for small outfits to make significant gains than in PS1.

KrazeyVIII · 2012-04-03, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

^^

The mind of a zergfit member, cant comprehend we do what they do, simply faster, more efficiently and with a fraction of the people....and blanket the leaderboard with kills while at it.

http://i.qkme.me/35sbad.jpg

I have been in enough '1337fits', 'zergfits', and organized outfits to know the difference between the three.

You shove a bunch of really good players into one outfit then you have a very good kill squad/platoon that can take small objectives.

You invite everyone with a 'No Outfit' tag into your outfit and tell them to go that-a-ways then you can move some earth and push the army forward just by being organized enough to tell people where to go.

You invite the right players into an organized outfit and you can get shit that needs to be done, done.

I won't even use my outfit as an example I'll use KAAOS, Hostile Takeover, Phoenix Royal Guard, and LXG.

KAAOS/HT: Would use mossies/reavers to own the sky. When the time came to take an objective, like a tower, they would take it to the best of their ability. I say to the best of their ability because sometimes it just wasn't possible. Their numbers could not do squat in some towers because there were too many enemies inside that would just overwhelm them. On the bright side they had good leaders who would choose to go somewhere else and be effective there instead of bash their heads against a wall doing nothing effective.

PRG: On outfit night (and that Vanu Alliance night) I was in their Spec Ops division as a MAX. They chose the RIGHT people to operate with an even smaller force than KAAOS but they used galaxies so they could put the right players with the right loadouts (REXO/MAX) into key areas to take objectives. The air squadrons and tank squadrons would call the main targets and we would do the heavy lifting taking out tech generators and capturing key towers along the way. We could take on larger forces than KAAOS and HT because we were able to bring the right gear (not an agi armor with no ammo or shields) to the right places. With 10-20 people online we could stand up against forces more than twice our size and come out on top because we had the right players that knew exactly what to do at the times it needed to be done. That along with a good SOP really made the difference in fights we should have lost, a lot of them dealing with taking advantage of how a zerg soldier reacts to certain situations and then capitalizing on it.

LXG: A kill outfit 100%. They didn't care about taking bases our towers for the most part. They just went out there with the sole purpose of getting kills. At the end of a few hour session most of them held at least a 10-1 KD. Their favorite tactic was dropping on an enemy tower and not even attempting to go inside, just camping the roof so whenever people came out to kill them they would instead get killed themselves. This eventually did force the tower to be overtaken because the people inside would devote too many resources to the roof but it was never their objective. I heard sighs of disappointment more often then not when a tower was taken while being farmed. This is the way they chose to play, and when I was with them it was fun as hell. The bright side to playing with LXG was that they weren't close minded fools, they knew which large outfits were zerg outfits and which outfits actually used their numbers properly. This helped me choose PRG later on. That mindset is rare in kill outfits.

I was with LXG first because it tickled my FPS bug. Then when I learned the game more I joined HT on my NC and KAAOS on my TR to start playing a more gratifying role of taking bases. Once I got the hang of small tactical play I joined PRG on my VS to really start moving some earth since I found I really enjoyed that part of the game more than kill whoring. In the end I wound up with TE because they combined the organization I got with the PRG with the numbers that could move mountains.

Long story short. Don't be a short sighted fool when looking at outfits with larger size. Their players will obviously not be as skilled as outfits that only seek out skilled players because that's not who they're looking for. Larger organized outfits look for players that will follow orders and then teach them the skills they need later. It's always great to have a solid core of amazing players but if they won't listen to orders or play as a team then what's the fucking point in having them?

*edit*

I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I started leaving the '133tfit' outfits was because of their undeserving inflated egos. I remember being in a few (and I won't name them here since some are recruiting, if you join them you can decide on your own) that would lose a fight and then later post on the forums about how they curb stomped the outfit they were fighting. Eventually you will win the war of attrition against a larger outfit holding a generator but if it takes you a fucking hour to take it back - IT IS NOT A VICTORY. At that point the damage has already been done. A lot of leetfits just refuse to lose in their heads and it gets annoying fast. Instead of learning from their mistakes they just keep doing the same things over and over again because it gets them kills. Looking back, the generator fight that took at least 1h to retake could have been fixed by asking for some help but that was out of the question because "We got this!".

I don't presume all leetfits to be this way but from the amount I was in I can say with some certainty that the vast majority are a bunch of ego junkies that will twist a victory out of anything.

Shogun · 2012-04-03, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

oh i think some might have got organisation down, in the sense of how lemmings organise themselves in a straight line and follow the lead guy.

Have you seen all those zergfit videos where they get all their members to lineup? pro organisation.

stop miscrediting the poor little lemmings!
to say it with weird al´s words: everything you know is wrong!
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

on topic: mixed outfits are best. they have their own zerg that can follow simple orders, and they have highly specialized squads for specops. the trick is, to use the zerg to distract the enemy, so the specops can get things done.
outfits with only specops players and no cannonfodder zerg have to rely on the mindless mainzerg who often wouldn´t listen to anyone and therefore screw up specops very often.

so i don´t want a roster limit.
i´m fine with a limit that can be raised in the cash shop. big outfits should have no problem to collect a buck from most members to buy perks, uniforms and more rosterslots.