Knives (and infantry combat in general)

[Beerbeer]

Forget it. You think I skim...

I never whaled on infantry. You come here with some perfect holistic balance scheme and tell me to learn to play. Please.

You don't know me, you think you do, but you don't.

[Daliahita]

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Oh, three bases.

That's just where tanks are not allowed at all. If I wanted to count the ones where tanks can't capture points (because they're inside buildings), that would be pretty much all of them. You forgot to admit that you're wrong, by the way.

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

A soldier not being as powerful as a tank sure sounds like the tank is superior to the soldier...

Power alone does not equal superiority. NC weapons are more powerful than the other factions in general. Sniper rifles are more powerful than pistols. Learn the difference between something being more powerful, and something being better.

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

And again, you're missing the point and telling me I'm ignorant without knowing a thing about me and what play style I enjoy is kind of ironic when it comes to ignorance.

You assume a lot...lol.

You TOLD me you only play tanks. You said it. I'm not assuming.

Read my posts. Read your own posts. This is getting frustrating.

[Beerbeer]

Anyways, back on topic.

No one else finds it strange?

And, we've heard opinions that knife against infantry versus tank against infantry is supposed to equal out in the grand scheme of things, when you take into account the macro aspect. Thank you for your thoughts.

[Daliahita]

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Forget it. You think I skim...

You pretty much proved it in every post.

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

I never whaled on infantry. You come here with some perfect holistic balance scheme and tell me to learn to play. Please.

"It's comical how much they don't want us to play infantry."

[OCNSethy]

I dunno man, the only time Ive been knifed was by my own side

But I would have thought if you got way close and and personal, it really should be a one-hit kill.

[Beerbeer]

Originally Posted by Daliahita

"It's comical how much they don't want us to play infantry."

That statement alone proves my point; you have no idea, but thank you for your thoughts, assumptions and contributions.

[Daliahita]

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Anyways, back on topic.

No one else finds it strange?

If you're just looking for people to agree with you that it's weird that tanks are tanks and infantry are infantry, try here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php

That's the official Planetside 2 forum, where people love to point out the obvious, make stupid statements and claim them as facts with no evidence, and they love to avoid actual discussion. You'll fit right in!

[Daliahita]

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

That statement alone proves my point; you have no idea, but thank you for your thoughts, assumptions and contributions.

I was quoting what you said. Feigning ignorance in a discussion represents evidence of actual ignorance. Good for you.

[Beerbeer]

Wow, are you trolling me? I almost bought it.

[Daliahita]

No, I'm not trolling you. You actually did write that. Check your very first post. Actually read it this time.

[The Messenger]

The current system just makes it much easier to get kills with vehicles. But IMO, it's not the vehicles that are overpowering, it's the vehicles after dumping massive amounts of certs into. This allows many players to use strictly vehicles and barely touch infantry combat. There is no real easy fix with this to the current servers. What they could do is start a test server with vehicles that can't be certed/upgraded. The exception would be the AMS/shield sunderer and MBT special abilities. No repair sunderer and ESPECIALLY no ammo. Force people to leave the frontline to re-arm. SOE would have to shuffle around some re-arm points to make this plausible but it could work.

Less ammo capacity, no defense, or movement upgrades will make things easier for infantry to counter vehicles. And I bet a lot less people will fly an ESF when they have to leave the frontline and re-arm after two volleys of pods. This may fix the defense problem since it would be much easier for defenders to re-arm than those running offense. Those on offense would have to focus on enemy vehicles to help the infantry cap bases.

[WarbirdTD]

I'm gonna jump right into the middle of this hornet's nest! Beerbeer, I understand the frustration with vehicle camping, and I totally agree. But vehicles are not the issue, and therefore the knife comparison doesn't quite work for me. Knives are not 150mm projectiles being flung at close to supersonic speeds, nor are they big blue balls of death (or whatever that vanu shit is). Knives are blades that are probably pretty hard to shove through armor.

Base design itself is the issue. Will you be able to camp certain entrances to any base ever designed? Yes. However, there needs to be enclosed infantry areas so the enemy is forced to get out of the tank in order to fight you. They pretty clearly missed the boat with the outside design of Tech Plants and Amp Stations, but Bio Labs are closer to the mark. Underground, underground, underground. Put the cap points, spawn rooms, and SCU's in an underground area (a la Planetside 1) and you will have some RAUCOUS infantry fights. Unfortunately, nobody's quite sure if their engine can handle so many people in such a confined space, but hell, it'd probably be better than this.

Back to not nerfing vehicles to promote infantry combat... Have you ever shot an AP round at infantry? After 30 seconds of not hitting a Light Assault jerk floating ever closer to your tank with C4 in tow, and finally being blown to bits by said jerk, you will be very, very angry. If they nerf tank round explosion radius, that will be a pretty consistent theme... So who would pull a tank? Just to kill Sunderers or other tanks (that wont exist)? See where I'm going with this? We need a game that has all of these aspects and things are pretty balanced between ground and infantry right now, but promoting inf v inf at the expense of ground vehicles would be a misstep if SOE ever fixes their base design.

Besides, tanks are a bit hard to keep up now that people have caught on to all the different ways to kill them... Tank mines, rocket launchers, C4, ESF rocketpod from behind, Daltons, and Tank busters.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by The Messenger

The current system just makes it much easier to get kills with vehicles. But IMO, it's not the vehicles that are overpowering, it's the vehicles after dumping massive amounts of certs into. This allows many players to use strictly vehicles and barely touch infantry combat. There is no real easy fix with this to the current servers. What they could do is start a test server with vehicles that can't be certed/upgraded. The exception would be the AMS/shield sunderer and MBT special abilities. No repair sunderer and ESPECIALLY no ammo. Force people to leave the frontline to re-arm. SOE would have to shuffle around some re-arm points to make this plausible but it could work.

Less ammo capacity, no defense, or movement upgrades will make things easier for infantry to counter vehicles. And I bet a lot less people will fly an ESF when they have to leave the frontline and re-arm after two volleys of pods. This may fix the defense problem since it would be much easier for defenders to re-arm than those running offense. Those on offense would have to focus on enemy vehicles to help the infantry cap bases.

You have a point about vehicle ammo. Iv put out ideas of limiting the number of spawns an AMS sundy has before having to restock, why not try the same for ammo? Say level one ammo gives 50 resupplies, level 2 100, L3 150, so on and so on. Once resupplies are gone refill them at a slower pace from an ammo tower like 5 at a time.

One reason I think attacking is so overpowering against defending is the unlimited numbers they have and being able to move spawn points (sundy). If spawns and ammo where limited by how many certs you put into an sundy then attackers would have to be MUCH smarter at who/what would go at things. Instead of just bashing ones skull till the bricks fall.

[Beerbeer]

Personally, I have no problems with knives one-shotting. You get in that close on foot, you deserve that intsta-gib. Maybe I'm biased towards my previous experiences with other "FPS" games. You're in a tank 200 m away and one-shot, big freaking deal.

It just seems weird and kind of reaffirms my suspicion of their desire to marginalize and de-emphasize infantry fighting.

[The Messenger]

Speaking of knife kills, does anyone else feel like it was easier in beta? Not the damage but it seems like knifing a moving target is WAY harder.