Light Assault Ammo Drop

[kklkit]

For those who are wondering:

"Grenade spam: grenades cost resources, spam shouldn't be a problem"

So I would assume that ammo box won't resupply grenade but just ammo for guns.

[Ragotag]

Originally Posted by kklkit

So I would assume that ammo box won't resupply grenade but just ammo for guns.

Good point, unlike BF3 which only makes it take much longer to resupply grenades assuming your ammo is already full up. I do hope they limit how much ammo an ammo drop can provide; would be a nice gameplay feature if it took more than one ammo drop to resupply your squad -- would force your squad to defend an area for a bit while resupplying.

[Mordicant]

Originally Posted by Synapses

I think it will still play out both ways, everyone probably isnt going to have the ammobox in light assault and obviously outside of that class...

So I think youll still see both things happening.

He had also ran and hide. He could have stayed in the fight and expended his pistol as while. Then thrown his helmet a la Saving Private Ryan.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Vancha

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

I felt the same way... I really hate how they're taking so many mechanics from BF3 and putting it into the game. Squad spawning and throwing ammo/med boxes? are the worst ones. Killcam seems to be a thing used in many games now and that is another really bad one I hoped wouldn't land in the game. All three, while "modern mechanics", doesn't meant they should be in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having "archaic mechanics" in the game, like actually having to work to get a spawn point or heal each other. It looked like there was no cooldown on squad spawning when Higby was playing. Unless that was just for showing it off.

[Aractain]

A lot of you really sound like "Its not like the good ole days!". Lots of people asked for portable ammo terminals in PS1 and a lot of other stuff.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Cosmical

Although how complex do you want to get? From the sounds of things everyone has a damage grenade and a untility grenade. And i hate it when corner or door battles just become spam with grenades, i dont know how much more complex a game of this size can get.

As the time to kill (TTK) goes up you end up opening the doors for a lot of gameplay choices (also destroying some other). Take PS1 for instance, you could easily jump through a door and shoot at people or run from cover to cover taking bullets left and right without dying because of damage degradation and low damage for each bullet. This meant players were forced to aim and land well placed shots. As Whalenator said if you died you knew you did something wrong. You ran behind the wrong cover, didn't fall back to a door when a tank was driving past, among other things. Basically you want the TTK to reflect how many choices you want a player to make. Right not it seems very well balanced. You have people tactically crouching at doorways shooting and others standing. There isn't a huge risk it looks like for stepping out and getting a view like in some games.

Regarding making combat more complex I might have spoke too soon. I mean they also have sprint and the light assault has a jetpack greatly increasing choices. Increasing it can be done in a lot of ways. One of them is deployables for defense and countermeasures. Simple stuff (prepare for game references) like short deployable shields that you can pass through but can block bullets (BF2142), momentary armor bonuses when you reveal yourself to enemies (Crysis), shield bubbles for defending groups (Halo), armor lock for taking an attempted hit and run (Halo), anti-grenade deployable, then on the offensive style complex fire modes. Stuff like single, triple-shot, burst, auto for weapons with varying bonuses go a long way for choices and tactics. (Though, it's easily argued that role overlap for weapons becomes a problem). Then you have squad abilities. I'm a huge fan of FPS+RPG games (think Bioshock etc). So having abilities for classes like a medic ability of "Sacrifice" that discharges a player's shield and recharges all neighboring shields. Basically things that a player can do along with their weapons in the middle of a battle quickly that could mean life or death for themselves or others. The idea of "I would have lived if I'd've done X" is important to me. Taking this to the extreme results in abilities described in this thread. Including defensive countermeasures for catching/redirecting grenades/rockets/tank shells, blocking bullets at the cost of not shooting, converting a player's shields into health as a medic AOE for friendlies. (Never been a fan of non-defensive abilities. Guns are good for that). As mentioned these go for far away to give a player possibly dozens of choices increasing the skill of the gameplay. It's not about who shot first. It's about "oh his teammate transferred his shields to the person I was about to kill and then his other teammate killed me". Complexity and interactions you don't find in other games. (Unless it's like a lame TF2 medic. More of a battle-medic who assists while fighting).

(Also if anyone is curious. I've only played the first Halo for PC so I'm going off videos).

Originally Posted by Cosmical

If you look aswell, throwing a grenade was abit clunky, by design. It took him a while to throw, and he was vulnerable while doing so for quite a while. Hopefully that will be enough to make throwing a grenade a skilled choice, rather than a desperate mans flinging.

It's the exact implementation I wanted for it. I'm glad they went with that longer delay.

[Malorn]

I like it, makes sense. Encourages diversity in arms. I like each class having their own value and niches.

[VioletZero]

I don't like it.

Ammo should really be a part of the supply lines aspect and be more limited.

One idea I kind of like is the idea of taking ammo boxes from Sunderers directly. And them having a limited supply of ammo on their own.

And each ammo box being capable of resupplying only so many times.

The only thing that can grant infinite supplies is a base itself. While attacking through, you're limited.

[Malorn]

On another note, if grenades cost resources, and implants are like buffs, then both become resource sinks in the game.

I like resource sinks. It keeps resources meaningful.

Resource caps are also meaningful, not letting us stockpile seemingly infinite resources means we have to manage our resources, not simply acquire them.

So yay to grenades and implants costing resources. I hope they have reasonable but meaningful caps on resources as well to keep resources valuable and keep us fighting for them.

I also like how population factors into resource accrual rate. I assume that means that is inversely proportional to population, since that's the only thing that makes sense.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I felt the same way... I really hate how they're taking so many mechanics from BF3 and putting it into the game. Squad spawning and throwing ammo/med boxes? are the worst ones. Killcam seems to be a thing used in many games now and that is another really bad one I hoped wouldn't land in the game. All three, while "modern mechanics", doesn't meant they should be in the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having "archaic mechanics" in the game, like actually having to work to get a spawn point or heal each other. It looked like there was no cooldown on squad spawning when Higby was playing. Unless that was just for showing it off.

I hold no opinion one way or the other on kill cams, but i love the ammo and med boxes. I'm glad you are not making the game.

But then I love the BF series. Its by far my favorite as far as infantry combat goes. I love it when people compare it to BF, since that just puts a smile on my face.

[IceyCold]

I just noticed this about the ammo dispensers:

If you go to the 4th video, at 0:50 where he drops the ammo canister; he is only allowed to carry ONE.

So if it gives limited ammo, and does not resupply him with another Ammo Canister then I can see this being a non issue.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by Vancha

The only thing I'd say is, when Higby ran out of ammo I was like "Aha! Now you'll have to get the pistol out and fight for your life!", then I saw the ammo box and I was slightly disappointed.

I'm not really against ammo boxes, but I wonder whether it'd be more fun to sit on ammo boxes to reload, or find yourself occasionally caught short and have to survive with your side-arm.

I was hoping to see his hand cannon too.

As for ammo boxes, I think SOMEONE should carry them, but it doesn't seem like it's appropriate at all for the light assault class. The heavy weapons guy would be a much more sensible choice, or the engineer.

Medic would have a lot of "medic" equipment, so probably not them, light assault is... uh.. "light" and manoeuvrable -> not carrying much and of course infil is not going to carry anything.

[Coreldan]

I suppose this is one of the things fairly much a subject to change on feedback if needed.

Personally I'd like something reworked about this.

1) It seemed to be something like a "perk/utility" to have the ammo box, meaning just about everyone will have access to it, but naturally having to trade off something else. Not necessarily a bad thing, people interested in support can do more support instead of combat

2) I'd like it somehow.. more physical instead of a box. I'd like if the guy "built" some kind of "pole" the Aegis Shield Generator had or something The "throw a box on the ground" is a bit too BF3, anything different from that is win

3) I hope ammo boxes have limited resupplies inside them and/or are not infinite on the "owners end", as in, you got like two boxes and then you gotta go resupply at a term yourself. Not like BF3 where you got an infinite supply of big ass boxes in your pocket.

Overall, not a concern for me

EDIT: I was hoping to see the NC pistol as well in the situation, was slightly disappointed in that sense, but I dont think everyone will be running with the ammo box, if they will, it's a matter of feedback and will be changed.

[Dreamcast]

That is pretty stupid....You have an ammo bag...but u have to drop it to use it......



It would be way better if an engineer just carried an ammo box layed it somewhere, then the guys will go and get it.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

2) I'd like it somehow.. more physical instead of a box. I'd like if the guy "built" some kind of "pole" the Aegis Shield Generator had or something The "throw a box on the ground" is a bit too BF3, anything different from that is win

Definitely agree it could be a bit more robust and fancy looking. Not so crazy as a tf2 dispenser, but a bit more than a box.


I also highly doubt there will be infinite numbers of boxes, and somewhat(but not totally) doubt the ammo box will be infinite.