Should the Enforcer and Sauron be better at AA, or is the Vulcan too good at AA? - Page 2

phungus · 2013-07-04, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.

Rumblepit · 2013-07-04, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

stfu man, your starting to make since and shet... wft are you thinking???

WSNeo · 2013-07-04, 11:19 PM

The weapons are fine. Leave them as they are.

Stop suggesting that all three empires be balanced asymmetrically.

Phreec · 2013-07-05, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by phungus

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.

You forgot about MAX's. Both VS and TR abilities buff the effectiveness of AA, which shouldn't happen. Currently TR has way too much AA oriented that's vastly superior and they should start with tweaking the Vulcan.

exohkay · 2013-07-05, 07:16 AM

It's way too good as AA and it does need tweaking.

I don't like to argue for homogeneity, but the vulcan is just too good against aircraft.

I'd like to see AP do less damage against aircraft in general

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Rbstr · 2013-07-05, 10:40 AM

I'm ok with it being decent against aircraft...but when combined with doing so much DPS and having a better range of movement it's out of line with the others.

Give the Sauron and Enforcer velocity and aim-limits buffs. Or hit the Vulcan with the opposite.

maradine · 2013-07-05, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by phungus

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air.

Precisely. In the one aspect of the game you choose to sample, the factions are not balanced. That's my point. Different factions do different things better.

Is this by design? Bad planning? Who knows.

WSNeo · 2013-07-05, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by exohkay

I'd like to see AP do less damage against aircraft in general

Falcon_br · 2013-07-06, 03:22 AM

Well, the vanguard have a main cannon with low gravity and high speed.
I get hit by vanguards main cannon all the times when flying. The AP and HE are one hit kill.
We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.
Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!
A prowler with a vulcan is the same, the vulcan can´t aim high!
And I did shot down a liberator with the vulcan, it is not as easy as everyone talks about, It is much more easier to use the g30 walker or one skyguard. The g-40 is just useless.

WSNeo · 2013-07-06, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!

Well there you go, you just found a solution to your problem. Learn, adapt, and apply.

To be fair if you put yourself in the situation where you are able to be shot down by a tank, you deserve it (and they earned it) if they hit you.

Do you see people bitching in Battlefield 3 whenever their jets are shot out of the sky by tanks before they decided to engage at low altitude? Do helicopters deserve to not be one shot by tanks because they decided that they wanted to fly at low altitudes farming infantry and ignoring the T-90 on the hill watching them?

We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.

Well obviously, since NC follows the "more power per shot" characteristic. At least the devs didn't suddenly fuck your weapon by giving it an unneeded and unwanted change to the Sauron, rather than simply selling it off as a variant to accommodate different play styles.

Osskscosco · 2013-07-06, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

I'm ok with it being decent against aircraft...but when combined with doing so much DPS and having a better range of movement it's out of line with the others.

Give the Sauron and Enforcer velocity and aim-limits buffs. Or hit the Vulcan with the opposite.

Klypto · 2013-07-08, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Well, the vanguard have a main cannon with low gravity and high speed.
I get hit by vanguards main cannon all the times when flying. The AP and HE are one hit kill.
We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.
Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!
A prowler with a vulcan is the same, the vulcan can´t aim high!
And I did shot down a liberator with the vulcan, it is not as easy as everyone talks about, It is much more easier to use the g30 walker or one skyguard. The g-40 is just useless.

Gravity for all tank projectiles for all factions are the same. The only difference is that the Vanguard shells are faster (higher velocity) so they cover more ground before they drop.

TITAN-150 HE places an aircraft at heavy damage. TITAN-150 HEAT (default) is the one that kills ESFs like the AP rounds.

But yeah, I'm fine with the Vulcan the way it is because I shoot down aircraft all day long in my Vanguard, which is something the other two factions can't do easily. (It's arguably better than a skyguard when you are not directly under your target)

The concept of balance doesn't necessarily mean that everyone can do essentially the same thing the same way or even that they can do similar things different ways.

Larington · 2013-07-08, 08:00 PM

One thing that's really throwing me at the moment, on the VS driver magrider guns, the round/shell/bolt/whatever doesn't exit the vehicle at crosshair level and it can really fudge your aim in all sorts of uncomfortable ways. On the upside, we've discovered that ramming a harasser with magrider can do terrible damage to the harasser, even make it detonate completely. It's something I ought to look into more.

KesTro · 2013-07-08, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Vulcan still sucks against infantry which is the big trade-off here.

So does the enforcer, can't speak about the saron as I haven't played VS in awhile. But Enforcer needs 2 direct hits to kill someone. So it's doable, just not likely.

typhaon · 2013-07-08, 09:59 PM

I think the balance issues show themselves when one choice (and this applies to just about everything in the game) becomes the best choice for all or almost all situations.