Trayvon Martin - Page 2

Baneblade · 2012-03-22, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

It's just stupid they couldn't arrest him. The law needs to be amended.

Why couldnt they arrest him?

Vecha · 2012-03-22, 03:04 PM

While the kid may have been a punk..maybe even a petty theft, that doesn't mean he should have been shot.

He was unarmed.

I too don't think this should take away 2nd amendment rights(I'm not a gun owner, but I respect those who are), but this guy should have been taken in at least.

I also think the NAACP response is a bit silly...but I can understand the Mother's anger, frustration, etc.

The kid didn't deserve to get shot. Even if the kid was yelling at the man...you don't shoot someone for yelling at you...or even "attacking"(whatever that means).

I guess there's a chance I may change my mind once I hear more evidence...but as of right now...I think he should have been taken in.

Warborn · 2012-03-22, 04:08 PM

So here's the 911 call of someone by where the shooting took place. The person yelling for help is Martin:

And here's the 911 call of Zimmerman where he says the teen is "suspicious" and "looking at houses", complaining that "these assholes always get away", and confirms he got out of his vehicle to pursue and confront Martin:

Zimmerman also may have said "fucking coons" on the 911 call under his breath, although it's hard to make out. Obviously this hasn't gone to trial yet, but the self-defense claim seems like baloney. Zimmerman was far larger than Martin, was armed, and it's unlikely that Martin would have been screaming for help if he were in the process of endangering Zimmerman's life.

Looking at it as a hate crime at this point doesn't seem so strange. The shooter can be heard saying what sounds like a racial epithet directed toward Martin during the 911 call. If it turns out that the much smaller, unarmed Martin was not in fact a danger to Zimmerman's life, then the motive for the homicide perpetrated could fairly easily be demonstrated to be racial. Zimmerman, they'd say, is a self-empowered community watch person, tired of "those assholes" who always get away, and "fucking coons" walking around looking at houses suspiciously. So, he decided to take matters into his own hands. That's hardly a story that would shock people.

BuzzCutPsycho · 2012-03-22, 04:20 PM

This entire incident is a perfect illustration on why there is so much violence in America and it actually has very little to do with firearms.

Firefly · 2012-03-22, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat

I agree with you, someone was shot. But what lead up to the shooting? I keep hearing that this kid was killed and it was a travesty, but two other neighbors said this kid was doing shit he shouldn't be doing...and that he hit this guy and ran away.

You should probably do some research before, you know, posting opinions. A quick five-second Google Search led me to about thirty different run-downs of the incident, and all of them pretty much crucify the shooter.

Fact: guy follows the kid in his car.
Fact: kid runs away because someone is following him
Fact: guy gets out of the car. With a gun.
Fact: kid is unarmed.
Fact: guy is on the phone with 911, who tells the guy not to follow the kid.
Fact: guy confronts kid. Guy shoots unarmed kid. Kid dies.
Fact: guy straddles kid's corpse and is crying "Oh God what have I done?"

As near as I can tell, nobody reported the kid for looking into windows. The kid was walking through a gated community that he had every right to be in.

Personally, I think he probably got trigger-happy and had an accidental discharge. Because he's a stupid fucking REMF wanna-be and he had his goddamned finger in the trigger well like he was teasing an easy lay. I don't think it's a race-related issue. I think non-whites are painting it as such specifically because a black kid was shot by a guy that looks white, and wasn't arrested.

This isn't an excuse to erode the Second Amendment. You really need to calm down on the rhetoric. It's an excuse to reexamine and adjust the Florida law, as well as a public outcry over the cold-blooded murder of a child by a know-nothing idiot. Like Hamma said - he gives responsible gun owners a bad name.

Vecha · 2012-03-23, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

So here's the 911 call of someone by where the shooting took place. The person yelling for help is Martin:
Trayvon Martin Shooting 911 Call - YouTube

And here's the 911 call of Zimmerman where he says the teen is "suspicious" and "looking at houses", complaining that "these assholes always get away", and confirms he got out of his vehicle to pursue and confront Martin:
George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube

Zimmerman also may have said "fucking coons" on the 911 call under his breath, although it's hard to make out. Obviously this hasn't gone to trial yet, but the self-defense claim seems like baloney. Zimmerman was far larger than Martin, was armed, and it's unlikely that Martin would have been screaming for help if he were in the process of endangering Zimmerman's life.

Looking at it as a hate crime at this point doesn't seem so strange. The shooter can be heard saying what sounds like a racial epithet directed toward Martin during the 911 call. If it turns out that the much smaller, unarmed Martin was not in fact a danger to Zimmerman's life, then the motive for the homicide perpetrated could fairly easily be demonstrated to be racial. Zimmerman, they'd say, is a self-empowered community watch person, tired of "those assholes" who always get away, and "fucking coons" walking around looking at houses suspiciously. So, he decided to take matters into his own hands. That's hardly a story that would shock people.

Thanks for posting this Warborn. Really puts a new perspective on things.

TheSHiFT · 2012-03-23, 02:10 AM

It can still be a hate crime if it is Hispanic vs. Black.

Florida's laws are terrible, I legally could find Zimmerman, pick a fight with him (literally hitting him first) and when he fights back I can shot him and claim self-defense.

TheSHiFT · 2012-03-23, 02:14 AM

I should note the Florida statute:
"776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013."

There is no way a Jury would believe that Zimmerman reasonably believes Martin was a deadly threat while screaming for help. And that is ignoring everything else against Zimmerman in this case. What a shitty law.

Hamma · 2012-03-23, 10:42 AM

Yea sadly nobody actually SAW what happened.

But based on the 911 calls imo this guy could easily be convicted I don't believe the law even applies here. Why the police have not arrested him is beyond me I believe they have the cause to.

Firefly · 2012-03-23, 12:08 PM

Chief of Police has "temporarily" stepped down. US President has entered the fray, as well. Considering the hundreds of thousands of people who are actively protesting (and not this Facebook slacktivist bullshit), and the million-plus signatures on a petition, plus the fall-out within the police department, you can expect that Zimmerman will face charges and possibly arrest.

There were multiple 911 calls, not just Zimmerman's call. The victim was also on the phone with his girlfriend through much of the ordeal, up until the scuffle started. This guy was in his car, a grown-ass man in a vehicle... up against a skinny unarmed teenager on foot. The picture has been drawn - this neighborhood watch guy had no reason, no justification, and no official permission from the police, to draw his weapon or engage Martin. From all appearances Zimmerman was the aggressor.

I believe in innocence until proven guilty. The amount of evidence is compelling. What I also believe in is justice. And I think if Zimmerman is innocent he should do the right thing and turn himself in. The parents of this murdered child deserve to have their case heard in a court of law.

ArcIyte · 2012-03-23, 03:50 PM

Just goes to show the double standard that arises when race is thrown into the mix. It is much easier to claim "hate crime" when the person in question is White. Zimmerman is clearly Latino/Mestizo/Native/whatever you want to call it. If he is white, then so is Barack Obama. If the drive-by media can't get that right (or refuse to), then how can anyone trust the important information?

The people here claiming Martin was a "skinny teenager attacked by a full grown man": Martin was 6 foot 3, Zimmerman was 5 foot 9. Completely opposite of what some of you are claiming.

Anyone who is actually interested in justice (read: not social "justice") is only concerned with one question: We know Zimmerman was beaten. Did Martin attack Zimmerman, as he claims, or did Zimmerman attack Martin, who then turned the tables on Zimmerman and beat him to the point where Zimmerman shot Martin.

In those recordings people presume the screaming in the background is Martin. Early in the investigation it was assumed that it was Zimmerman, as Zimmerman told the police that he was screaming for help (which he never got, hence the firearm) during the fight.

Both Zimmerman and Martin were in public places where they legaly could be. Neither one committed any crime until the attack occurred. The question is, who started it? With the amount of useless racial and anti-gun propaganda, I doubt that question will even be center stage, let alone answered.

Warborn · 2012-03-23, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

Just goes to show the double standard that arises when race is thrown into the mix. It is much easier to claim "hate crime" when the person in question is White. Zimmerman is clearly Latino/Mestizo/Native/whatever you want to call it. If he is white, then so is Barack Obama. If the drive-by media can't get that right (or refuse to), then how can anyone trust the important information?

Zimmerman's ethnicity isn't important. He clearly isn't black, and he said "fucking coons" while chasing Martin down. If they wanted to charge this as a hate crime, they'd certainly have a case for it. Either way though, the problem is a 17 year old doing nothing more than drinking iced tea and eating candy was pursued, shot, and killed by someone else and the police did nothing about it. That's the outrage.

The people here claiming Martin was a "skinny teenager attacked by a full grown man": Martin was 6 foot 3, Zimmerman was 5 foot 9. Completely opposite of what some of you are claiming.

Zimmerman weighed 80 lbs more than Martin. Martin may have been taller, but he was clearly much skinnier. And he was unarmed, unless candy and a drink constitutes a weapon. They were Skittles though so, I dunno, those are pretty potent.

Anyone who is actually interested in justice (read: not social "justice") is only concerned with one question: We know Zimmerman was beaten. Did Martin attack Zimmerman, as he claims, or did Zimmerman attack Martin, who then turned the tables on Zimmerman and beat him to the point where Zimmerman shot Martin.

The police claimed witnesses gave testimony corroborating Zimmerman's story which the witnesses themselves say is false. The 911 call also contradicts the statement Zimmerman made, that he got out of his car to check the street sign and was jumped from behind by Martin. In this case, neither the police nor Zimmerman's testimony can be considered reliable.

In those recordings people presume the screaming in the background is Martin. Early in the investigation it was assumed that it was Zimmerman, as Zimmerman told the police that he was screaming for help (which he never got, hence the firearm) during the fight.

That was apparently part of the witness tampering.

Both Zimmerman and Martin were in public places where they legaly could be. Neither one committed any crime until the attack occurred. The question is, who started it? With the amount of useless racial and anti-gun propaganda, I doubt that question will even be center stage, let alone answered.

There doesn't seem to be any real question to it. Martin was committing no crime and Zimmerman ran after him, armed, to confront him. An altercation occurred and Martin, who was unarmed, was shot and killed. Zimmerman started the altercation by pursuing Martin without any reason, and Zimmerman fired the shot. I'm not sure where the ambiguity is here.

ArcIyte · 2012-03-23, 04:57 PM

There doesn't seem to be any real question to it

Tell me what crime Zimmerman committed before the fight started.

Saying "An altercation occurred and Martin was shot, Zimmerman is guilty" is oversimplifying it. The ambiguity lies in who started the physical fight.

Warborn · 2012-03-23, 10:18 PM

That would be oversimplifying it, which is probably why I didn't say it. In fact, I didn't even use the word guilty, did I? Fancy that.

The justification for Zimmerman shooting Martin is that Martin was threatening his life, right? That it was self defense? Well, apparently, he was such a threat to Zimmerman that Zimmerman had to get out of his vehicle and actually run Martin down before he fired his weapon at him. Sounds pretty perilous, huh? So Zimmerman chased him down while muttering racial epithets, and then for some reason an unarmed kid is shot in the chest and killed. And then Zimmerman lies to the police about what happened, claiming he was jumped by Martin from behind as he was getting out of his car to check street signs, despite the 911 call which completely contradicts that.

And yet you think the issue here is whether Martin threw a punch first or something? Seriously?

**Malorn** · 2012-03-23, 11:52 PM

Meh.