Gameplay: MAX Melee Arm (Sacrifice a gun for better melee) - Page 2

Zekeen · 2012-07-06, 04:23 AM

I'm surprised by the amount of support this idea is receiving and most of the criticism is rather constructive. You guys want me to flesh it out more with all the extra ideas given, and any concept art?

MorioMortis · 2012-07-06, 08:39 AM

Sure, this is actually something that people appear to either want or don't mind being in game as long as it is properly implemented. The discussion, at least in this thread, appears to have transitioned towards implementations rather than inclusion.

Also, I like the idea of increased damage when charging, but it should probably require a certain delay before it kicks in (either a minimal distance traveled or a time delay) to avoid 5 inch sprints indoors giving the increased damage.

DodgeIt · 2012-07-06, 11:07 AM

Can we add that if a max is going full tilt it can do a shoulder slam and multiple knock back?
I would love to see a max fling a softie a distance.

BillyBob · 2012-07-06, 11:18 AM

Why not?

I must admit I'm a bit skeptical regarding the usefulness and what advantage it would truly give a MAX using it...but if you'd would like to specc into that sort of thing, then sure.

/BB

jakaul · 2012-07-06, 11:44 AM

This is a fantastic idea. It's a lot like Planetside 1 where they gave the Scat max a shield and a heavy assault gun, then the NC wondered why every VS and his brother certed Comet max and blew gens over a "fair" fight.

What's more fun than having light armor and a jetpack? Having a huge, heavy ass mech unit charge your chokepoint position, knock you and your 6 squad mates back 10 meters and stick its solid steel boot up your ass for even thinking about having a fortified position. That's an even greater idea given that EVERYONE can simply switch their armor over to a MAX unit whenever they find whatever works for an equipment terminal in PS2.

But wait, there's more! Call now and you get to kite them! Fantastic idea, except the fact that kiting in a FPS implies you're not worried about the 1700 other guys (probably in max suits) with GUNS that want to KILL you. If I were to DoT him with a poison, run him around a base while HoT'ing my squad members that venture to close and rezzing my fallen comrades during his engraged mode, we'll win!

If you were to give maxes melee, it's my opinion they should also have a helmet with no eye holes so you and your squaddies can push him around while he flails about like a blindfolded fat kid trying to find delicious cake.

Zekeen · 2012-07-06, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by jakaul

This is a fantastic idea. It's a lot like Planetside 1 where they gave the Scat max a shield and a heavy assault gun, then the NC wondered why every VS and his brother certed Comet max and blew gens over a "fair" fight.

What's more fun than having light armor and a jetpack? Having a huge, heavy ass mech unit charge your chokepoint position, knock you and your 6 squad mates back 10 meters and stick its solid steel boot up your ass for even thinking about having a fortified position. That's an even greater idea given that EVERYONE can simply switch their armor over to a MAX unit whenever they find whatever works for an equipment terminal in PS2.

But wait, there's more! Call now and you get to kite them! Fantastic idea, except the fact that kiting in a FPS implies you're not worried about the 1700 other guys (probably in max suits) with GUNS that want to KILL you. If I were to DoT him with a poison, run him around a base while HoT'ing my squad members that venture to close and rezzing my fallen comrades during his engraged mode, we'll win!

If you were to give maxes melee, it's my opinion they should also have a helmet with no eye holes so you and your squaddies can push him around while he flails about like a blindfolded fat kid trying to find delicious cake.

Let's take off the DUAL GATLING GUNS while we're at it. I mean COME ON?! A VEHICULAR armored INFANTRY CLASS with TWO HEAVY GUNS, that are CUSTOMIZABLE INDEPENDENTLY to AI, AV, or AA?! I mean, ignoring the fact it COSTS RESOURCES like a vehicle... it can sport DUAL FLAMETHROWERS!

I counter your sarcasm with sarcasm. Good day sir!

Seriously though, I'm not gonna suggest anything anysane as a shoulder slam, so don't worry. But I think a variety of melee can easily be done right in order to avoid trouble with OP. I even expanded the notes a bit and even gave alternatives to certain things to avoid any issues. Hopefully they help quell your fears for OP a bit.

jakaul · 2012-07-06, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Let's take off the DUAL GATLING GUNS while we're at it. I mean COME ON?! A VEHICULAR armored INFANTRY CLASS with TWO HEAVY GUNS, that are CUSTOMIZABLE INDEPENDENTLY to AI, AV, or AA?! I mean, ignoring the fact it COSTS RESOURCES like a vehicle... it can sport DUAL FLAMETHROWERS!

I counter your sarcasm with sarcasm. Good day sir!

Seriously though, I'm not gonna suggest anything anysane as a shoulder slam, so don't worry. But I think a variety of melee can easily be done right in order to avoid trouble with OP. I even expanded the notes a bit and even gave alternatives to certain things to avoid any issues. Hopefully they help quell your fears for OP a bit.

How DARE you sarcasm my sarcasm! Keep that up and we're going to get into a dirty fist fight. Just because I don't like MAXes having melee doesn't mean I don't have a mean left hook. And I watch professional wrestling (WWE only), so don't think this is over.

On the serious, though, I personally just see this as something unnecessary. The MAX will already have multiple weapon system options and a grunt may only have a small window when the max is reloading to take advantage of his huge ass, so giving one melee seems overkill. Kind of like giving the TR and NC self confidence...it's wasted effort.

JayX · 2012-07-06, 01:39 PM

I would imagine that the majority of the people supporting this thread have at some point had bfr certed (if they played ps1). So lets see, FPS's really aren't your forte pshh don't worry, in our game you can jump inside a unit that has 3x as much armor as every other ground unit, has a weapon that is twice as powerful, and guess what if your aim is terrible you can just run up to these inferior weaklings and bash their face in. In return the only thing these smaller units can do is damage you with one type of weapon, if they are not carrying that weapon then it's instawin for you, well lets face it you are behind the controls so its instawin anyway you slice it.

So, does that sound enticing? Don't worry about skill when you can just be a walking arsenal of death. Still not enticing enough? Lets also make it so your suit has a built in applicator that allows you to resurrect yourself. We don't want you to have a respawn timer now do we, your empire needs you way to much. Aircraft/Vehicles a problem? Don't worry we have that covered too, whenever you are within range of any vehicle flares will shoot out of your rear end attracting all projectiles away from you.

Please let me know if I missed anything we can add to this idea!

Probably dumbest idea I have ever heard, well next to the VS hoverboard idea on these forums..

jakaul · 2012-07-06, 02:00 PM

I wouldn't say it's in the top ten dumb ideas, Jay. The VS Hoverboard thing probably takes up spots 1-7. This has some merit as an actual functional idea, though unnecessary IMO. Battlebots is QUITE fitting, though.

Zekeen · 2012-07-06, 02:28 PM

A lot of things are unnecessary, especially in game designs, but you guys gotta realize that even unused features are loved by many people in many of the games that have them.

Is it flawed? Depends. Is it useful? Could be. Is it better than the guns? Hell no. But people love the chance to do it. They love having more doors open to them. If someone forces you to do something, you might not enjoy it even if you would have normally. But if you get given several choices, and choose it, you're still happy those choices were open to you.

Variety allows us to attack more situations in ways others don't expect it so we can catch them off guard.

Let's say a MAX comes after you with guns, you and your allies will shoot back and take him down. But if that MAX clobbers you from around the corner, it could be a bit more chaotic and unexpected and disorient people engaging him.

Even if it's not as good, it has it's uses. Besides, this is a game, it's about having fun, and some people might enjoy having fun in this way. You can just gun them down and rack up kills, so it won't effect you negatively.

If someone wants to bring a knife to a gun fight, I say let them.

Khrakhan · 2012-07-06, 02:32 PM

I don't see why anybody playing a max would want to put such a hindrance on themselves...but hey, to each their own I guess. I just hope I come across a few of these 'MAXs' so I can show them just how silly they are in a gun fight.

Originally Posted by jakaul

I wouldn't say it's in the top ten dumb ideas, Jay. The VS Hoverboard thing probably takes up spots 1-7. This has some merit as an actual functional idea, though unnecessary IMO. Battlebots is QUITE fitting, though.

jakaul · 2012-07-06, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

A lot of things are unnecessary, especially in game designs, but you guys gotta realize that even unused features are loved by many people in many of the games that have them.

Is it flawed? Depends. Is it useful? Could be. Is it better than the guns? Hell no. But people love the chance to do it. They love having more doors open to them. If someone forces you to do something, you might not enjoy it even if you would have normally. But if you get given several choices, and choose it, you're still happy those choices were open to you.

Variety allows us to attack more situations in ways others don't expect it so we can catch them off guard.

Let's say a MAX comes after you with guns, you and your allies will shoot back and take him down. But if that MAX clobbers you from around the corner, it could be a bit more chaotic and unexpected and disorient people engaging him.

Even if it's not as good, it has it's uses. Besides, this is a game, it's about having fun, and some people might enjoy having fun in this way. You can just gun them down and rack up kills, so it won't effect you negatively.

If someone wants to bring a knife to a gun fight, I say let them.

So I have to be honest and say my response was more directed to follow on ideas of stuff like a max that can "charge" or knockback people or groups of people. If you want to put a weapon on the max that's ineffective compared to the other options, then I'm ok with that and I understand your point.

What I don't want is something that makes being in a max suit a requirement for urban combat simply because you won't survive if you don't. This is bullcrap, you made me get all serious and stuff. Lame.

OutlawDr · 2012-07-06, 05:36 PM

heh ok, are we done now with the sarcastic cutesy stuff?

I think if this is simply an upgraded version of the melee attack that the MAX already has, then its not going to be the end of the world. Honestly the draw I think is the visual of having a make a MAX with a big ass claw or fist. I still say give it a jack of all trades damage type, master of none.

Talek Krell · 2012-07-06, 07:13 PM

I sort of skimmed, so I apologize if it's been brought up. Friendly fire seems like a potential concern. Anti-vehicle (and therefore MAX) weapons tend to be explosive, which would mean that engaging a melee MAX with the "right" weapon would be likely to get you grief points or damage yourself depending on whether it's you the MAX is attacking.

That's also something to consider for the other involved faction though. New base layouts should help mitigate the issue but whenever somebody charges into melee range during a gunfight they're walking into a lot of people's line of fire, which is just begging for a friendly fire incident.

Beyond all that I don't really have any fundamental objection to the idea.

MorioMortis · 2012-07-06, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

New base layouts should help mitigate the issue but whenever somebody charges into melee range during a gunfight they're walking into a lot of people's line of fire, which is just begging for a friendly fire incident.

That seems like a potential issue, but if the TTK gets raised a little, we could end up with PS1-esque MAX crashes that mostly end up in melee anyways and where friendly fire was part of the game (ScatterMAXs and Pounder spam tended to get really nasty for everyone involved). Of course, you'd want some decent form of team coordination to limit the amount of gratuitous team killing, but building a MAX for melee combat pretty much narrows down your utility to either acting as a shocktrooper or as a massive, angry distraction and attention grabber, and, in both cases, you more or less have to get in the thick of the fighting.