My thoughs on ZOE - Page 2

Mastachief · 2013-10-11, 05:09 AM

My bitching and moaning is based off using my level5 zoe. It is basically a scattermax with massive range, huge clip, no armour loss (toggle that shit on and off) and it moves faster than any infantry. I am so much more effective in a zoe than i ever am in a scat max.

Shamrock · 2013-10-11, 09:52 AM

You know I prefer being a more tanky bullet soak MAX that breaches and allows the softies to run up behind me. But the moaning in this thread has convinced me to give ZoE another try, cheers.

I have never been able to pull off a 70+ kill streak with a VS or a TR MAX, but I can do this with ease in a Scat MAX, the Scat is far from useless I always enjoy playing it and saying it is awful or sub par is just unbelievable.

PS: anyone that cant hit a 7ft tall MAX has terribad aim.

Shamrock · 2013-10-11, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by DynamoECT

Omg vanu have one thing that's slightly nice, nerf it immediately. If we don't they might go above 29% population somewhere.

I laughed for real.

EVILPIG · 2013-10-11, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by NUKABAZOOKA

Please educate yourself.
It is a damage percent increase based upon rank of ZOE, not rate of fire.

I put the wrong acronym in. As can see, I put DPS in the first sentence of my post. Either way, same result. I fixed it for you.

Taramafor · 2013-10-11, 04:19 PM

Personally I use C4 to kill my maxes. You'd be surprised how often you can find one with its back turned and just leave one at it's feet. Or luring one around a corner. Once I get deci, I'll be using that too. And this is as a heavy, not a LA.

The strafing with the ZOE's is a bit much though as they basically become relentless killing machines that can move quickly, still gun and have a high armor value (high in terms of other infantry, not other MAXES). Perhaps have some sort of "boost" instead, where it moves quickly in one direction a fair distance and having it cool down for 5 seconds or so before using it again.

Sardus · 2013-10-11, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by DredVS

This statement pretty much proves this.

90% the speed of a soldier sprinting, and can still fire. My bad :P

The point is the ZOE can still keep up with you while firing and the thing is too bloody maneuverable for the sheer amount of damage it can pump out.

A smart ZOE can pretty much run in, do an extraordinary amount of damage to players, and run out, placing themselves at a risk that a TR or NC MAX simply cannot do without getting isolated and killed, and still get away.

They can do more damage, more quickly, and can put themselves in more risky situations than just about anything in the game and it really isn't that difficult to do.

The fact that they can just leave the thing on forever and turn it off and on as they please is just retarded. Some sort of wind up or wind down? energy bar? something? Anything?

NC have a shield they can't fire through at all which takes a split second to raise and lower. TR have an entire lock down animation with screen shake, AND they can't move during or after, AND they can't fire while the animation is playing.

bpostal · 2013-10-11, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

... I am so much more effective in a zoe than i ever am in a scat max.

As someone who had has the dubious pleasure of fighting folks like MCY and LMS for a few years now...this bit worries me the most.

Jaybonaut · 2013-10-12, 04:49 PM

I want you to approach the topic differently:

What would motivate a Vanu player to spend a huge amount of certs to completely max out the ZOE?

Think about it for a minute before replying. What would make you complete the ZOE tier tree? What would it give you?

Note that the damage increase is fairly non-existent - even at maximum you may kill a soldier in one less bullet as it is right now on live.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-10-12, 04:56 PM

Idont care being insta gibbed with a zoe max, but it does make the somewhat underpopped vanu more competitive on the live servers.

Jaybonaut · 2013-10-12, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by DynamoECT

Omg vanu have one thing that's slightly nice, nerf it immediately. If we don't they might go above 29% population somewhere.

I can feel his pain. Originally no one could argue that the VS Max was the worst in the entire game before the special abilities showed up. It was never much of a threat. Once it hit, VS got a new toy and everyone grabbed it. Suddenly VS Max was a threat and everyone was trying it out so they were everywhere.

The cries were huge. Before the nerfs, it was OP, no question. This time the cries were justified and graphs were shown proving it on Sony's side. Since the nerfs, things are far more balanced and the pop seemed to have quieted down.

Whoever it was that said they can tear through enemies easier with a ZOE than with a Scatmax - uh, no. The ability to one shot multiple enemies and chew through an entire squad is not weaker than being able to kill enemies with one less bullet with the ability to move at normal speed (normal, not super.)

It's also quite annoying for a squad to deal with a shield max.

People are crying nerf over 1 on 1 scenarios instead of what typically happens. The MAX data they have at Sony proves you are wrong anyway.

Obstruction · 2013-10-12, 06:16 PM

the ZOE is an overdrive right? they are pushing the safe operating limits of the suit.

so make them take DPS (pain field) while moving with it activated. that negates the strafing problem and puts a natural limit on use that is more in line with the other MAX abilities.

i also don't think it would hurt to have TR Lockdown activate/deactivate more quickly, and allow rotation but not movement.

i also think NC could probably stand to get the use of one weapon while shielded.

Taramafor · 2013-10-12, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jaybonaut

It's also quite annoying for a squad to deal with a shield max.

So true. I guess Vanu get a good speed boost and NC get shields. What do TR get? A lock down ability that makes them easy targets for rockets. >_>

ChipMHazard · 2013-10-12, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jaybonaut

People are crying nerf over 1 on 1 scenarios instead of what typically happens. The MAX data they have at Sony proves you are wrong anyway.

I'm not. It's the ZOE's ability to handle groups of infantry that I judge it on. The data that we have shows the VS MAX AI weapons as having a higher KPU than either TR or NC, I would guess that the difference is largely because of the ZOE.

Stanis · 2013-10-12, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I'm not. It's the ZOE's ability to handle groups of infantry that I judge it on. The data that we have shows the VS MAX AI weapons as having a higher KPU than either TR or NC, I would guess that the difference is largely because of the ZOE.

Positive feedback.
Force already winning .. flip ZOE on, win more.
Not as synegistic for the other empires as cant fire through a shield or move with lockdown.

However - as an outfit we don't much like ZOE.
In an organised unit we find the active ability too much of a liability.
The only max I consider using them on is a burster max - and playing against some skilled pilots I'd rather not light up my location like a christmas tree so use it selectively.

Anybody that runs into a max as solo infantry is probably dead meat.
The fact that if you chose to run the ZOE max can run after you ..
scales poorly.

If I run into a room of enemy with a solo MAX ZOE on - I expect to die in exchange for killing 1, maybe 2. Assuming I make it through the doorway.
That's a fair trade I think any empires max is able to make in the face of teamwork.

ChipMHazard · 2013-10-12, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stanis

Positive feedback.
Force already winning .. flip ZOE on, win more.
Not as synegistic for the other empires as cant fire through a shield or move with lockdown.

However - as an outfit we don't much like ZOE.
In an organised unit we find the active ability too much of a liability.
The only max I consider using them on is a burster max - and playing against some skilled pilots I'd rather not light up my location like a christmas tree so use it selectively.

Anybody that runs into a max as solo infantry is probably dead meat.
The fact that if you chose to run the ZOE max can run after you ..
scales poorly.

If I run into a room of enemy with a solo MAX ZOE on - I expect to die in exchange for killing 1, maybe 2. Assuming I make it through the doorway.
That's a fair trade I think any empires max is able to make in the face of teamwork.

Definently less situational than either the Aegis or Lockdown, which is probably one of the main gripes people have with it.
That all MAXes are very effective killing machines is a very good point to keep in mind. The ZOE doesn't make the VS MAX miles ahead of the NC/TR, but it does make it better at everything that matters for a MAX. IMO.

I can understand why you wouldn't. You can quickly turn the ZOE against its user, although I find it much harder to do in enclosed spaces where the maneuverability makes it quite a bit more difficult to hit it and not your team mates. Personally I enjoy taking on ZOEs from a higher position, by baiting or by flanking them with C4, which isn't really different from how you would tackle other MAXes. Not to mention the damage AV nades do to them.

Aye. 1 on 1 up close (Or within the MAX's effective range) it probably won't matter much, chances are that if you're going up against a good MAX alone then you're going to die.

Where I see the ZOE really shining is when being used more as an assassination tool, if that makes any sense, and not frontal assault.