So does anyone else think the class system has failed? - Page 2

Tatwi · 2012-10-17, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Redshift

The problem is it's all become rock paper scissors. You don't really have a choice in what you roll now, you just have to take what you need at the time.

At least in PS1 i had to choose to take an MCG and just hope i could sprint across the field to get in CQC, or i could think "i'm on med duty i'd better swap out my spare deci and ammo for med juice". The choice that exists now is irrelevant, the current certs don't really change anything worthwhile enough to call it character development either.

That's a good point with the classes, but the vehicles have some useful progression. One thing that bugs me with the latest patch is the progression with scopes. All I want is the reflex. Why force me to first buy two other scopes I will never use? That's not progression, it's a nuisance. "But you can use those other scopes until you earn the reflex", but, I wont, because I don't like them...

Helwyr · 2012-10-17, 04:28 PM

PS2's Class system is pretty terrible, it offers the worst of both MMORPG and FPS's systems. We get the grind of the RPG and to some extent the power divide between new and old characters. We get the everybody can do everything of the FPS and consequent lack of character specialization, especially after a year or so of the game being live.

Not everything in PS1 was great, but in terms of character development PS1s Cert/Inventory system was hands down superior to what we have in PS2. It didn't feel like a grind to get to BR20/23, there was real character specialization at those battle ranks (people saying there wasn't are talking out their rear ends). There was real flexibility in choosing your character's abilities and loadouts. Everyone couldn't do everything on a whim, so we would rarely get situations as we do in PS2 where masses of people all pull tanks or all pull AA, or Snipers or whatever else they felt best suited that particular moment of gameplay.

SixShooter · 2012-10-17, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I think its working out fine.

Ditto

Never liked the Resident Evil style inventory playing Tetris with ammo.

Originally Posted by Tatwi

That's a good point with the classes, but the vehicles have some useful progression. One thing that bugs me with the latest patch is the progression with scopes. All I want is the reflex. Why force me to first buy two other scopes I will never use? That's not progression, it's a nuisance. "But you can use those other scopes until you earn the reflex", but, I wont, because I don't like them...

Same here. I really don't want to waste certs on shit I'm not going to use ever, especialy the flashlight for the rail progression.

Marinealver · 2012-10-18, 06:00 AM

no because there are other things that have way more fail.

Base design
World design
Vehicle design
ect...

Babyfark McGeez · 2012-10-18, 08:03 AM

That you now have to cert stuff you don't want, to be able to cert the stuff you do want is news to me, the last time i looked into scopes i was able to just cert for what i want with all options avaible to me from the start.

A progression system in the certs / equipment part sounds like the worst thing they could do imo, it begs the question why they would come up with such a horrible flawed system where you HAVE to spend precious certs on crap you will never use.
And unfortunately the only answer i can come up with right now is that they plan on selling a lot of cert-increasing / boosting items.

Valcron · 2012-10-18, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I think its working out fine.

How do you figure? So you're telling me an open class system where players can equip pretty much any weapon and give players complete freedom is better than a restrictive system that lets you only equip certain weapons?

You can't sit here and actually believe that restrictive game systems are actually better than open ones, it's just not possible.

Realmofdarkness · 2012-10-18, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

The problem is it's all become rock paper scissors. You don't really have a choice in what you roll now, you just have to take what you need at the time.

At least in PS1 i had to choose to take an MCG and just hope i could sprint across the field to get in CQC, or i could think "i'm on med duty i'd better swap out my spare deci and ammo for med juice". The choice that exists now is irrelevant, the current certs don't really change anything worthwhile enough to call it character development either.

I think paper scissors is exactly the effect that WILL balance the game. There is never a situation where only one role is needed. If an assault on a base rolls alot of HA guys then Im pretty sure they will scream for ammo supply and medics. Players who roll sniper probably like to be snipers and hence most of the times always rolls sniper class independent of the situation.

Current solution will give more variation on the battlefield in my opinion and what ive seen so far it works very well. A minority of snipers,medics and engineers and majority of HA and light assault.

Rat · 2012-10-18, 10:51 AM

I like the class system, but I dont like the fact that anyone can change to any class at any given time, you should have to buy into a class to specialize in it, the latest cloaker infestation is a perfect example, if people had to buy into that class at the cost of not being able access another class we wouldnt see near as much spam. The same goes with vehicles...I dont feel that we need to go back to the inventory system tho.

Aaron · 2012-10-18, 11:36 AM

I would like to experience more specialization and character development than what the class system offers. I'm not getting a very strong sense of a "this is my character build" type of thing.

Currently, everyone has all the stuff, but you add a little on as you go. Not terrible, but could be much better.

Canaris · 2012-10-18, 11:52 AM

actually I don't mind the class system at all, quite like the ease of jumping from style of troopers to another.
As Marinealver listed there are far bigger fish to fry in beta atm and I would rate those way above the class system as needing attention.

Qwan · 2012-10-18, 12:24 PM

I think the only problem that I have is with the vehicle load out. I spend certs for gadgets for example the ams sunderer combo. It would be nice to also have the radar cloak as well. This way my ams sunderer doesnt show up on enemy radar, as my buddy's spawn at it. At the current set up I have to choose between ams or not showing up on radar. Or even the resupply and repair sunderer combo would be nice that way I can follow tanks and support them. Im just saying they should consider giving us slots and letting us decide which combo of gadgets to add on. Not just one at a time.

Redshift · 2012-10-18, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Realmofdarkness

I think paper scissors is exactly the effect that WILL balance the game. There is never a situation where only one role is needed.

It's bad FPS design and people will get really bored, really fast. No one likes getting into a 1v1 and knowing they can't physically win.

You can't try to balance it as a group because then game balance is ruined as soon as you're not in a group, which again will lead to people becoming frustrated.

Figment · 2012-10-18, 05:01 PM

In a FPS game the better player should always have a chance to win. Not being able to fight back is never good design.

Players aren't NPCs. As they're humans you have to account for their emotions in a game. If they feel useless, utterly incinerated without a fighting chance, they will not get satisfaction out of the game. No satisfaction == ...?

Shenyen · 2012-10-18, 09:09 PM

As a Combat Medic, i have a chance against anything but a MAX - but without heavier weapons, those were a PITA in Planetside 1,too.
I guess with some more cert points in stuff that isn't used to heal others, like C4, those can be brought down too.

What i can't kill is tanks and heavier aircraft - but i couldn't kill those with my hacker, medic or whatever builds in PS1.

I don't know what gives you the idea that any character could kill any other character, given "superior" skills.

There were tons of balancing problems between empires or weapons.

Realmofdarkness · 2012-10-19, 09:36 AM

It should always be a combination of skill and weapon choice who wins a 1vs1. Ofc a Ha will kill a med with ease if he shoot you with a rocket. But a med has a very big chance of killing a HA if he spots the HA first. A game where everyone is equal so really booring. Besides, a HA should get most of his XP from kills where a medic should get if from heals and some kills. different playstyles = more fun.