Mines to explode only when driven over and disarmable - Page 2

Sonny · 2013-03-14, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by GunmanTheH

Isn't this pointless? You will just drop your mines and then throw granade on them to make them explode

Hi GunmanTheH (and all),

I updated the OP with higby's further comments regarding disarming. They have considered the possibility of engies throwing grenades at their own mines to blow them up - now mines will not explode when you or anyone shoots them. Instead, they will just disappear.

Only engineers will get exp for disarming an enemy mine. Destroying one will get you no xp.

CraazyCanuck · 2013-03-14, 09:59 AM

That's an assinine change. Shooting will make it disappear with no reprecussions? Great solution Higby. No one will care about the loss of opportunity for xp because you shot it instead of waiting for an engy to remove it. The threat will be removed just by shooting it with no adverse side effects. Mines will no longer be certed and carried and everyone will just start carrying c4. There will be no use for them as a mine field deterrent because no one will bother to put them down because any stray small arms fire will remove them without any chance of collateral dmg.

Is recertification available yet?

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-14, 10:06 AM

I agree. That seems like a bad decision. Why would anyone go out of their way to let engineers disarm the mines when they can simply be removed by firing at them, xp be damned. This won't allow for minefields to be effective.

Carbon Copied · 2013-03-14, 10:10 AM

Does it raise the question that if damage despawns a mine - if you set several in a mine field (or as close as it currently allows

); whats to say that only one or two will go off because the chain reaction (which is sometimes the case) has caused the others to despawn. Seems abit naff..

BlazingSun · 2013-03-14, 10:11 AM

I never understood why you can throw around the AV mines, but can't do the same with a simple ammo pack.

CraazyCanuck · 2013-03-14, 10:12 AM

And think about the situation that is the biggest complaint. Those "buttholes" doing the Kami Sundy kills. Someone lays mines, that for some reason no one bothers to clear out by shooting them. The gents using this sundy are a patient lot and love any little bit of xp they can get. *lightbulb* They're at a sundy, they'll just change to an engy and remove them for the xp. Just remove mines from the game and refund the certs for them and be done with it.

Gatekeeper · 2013-03-14, 10:41 AM

It's a good sign that they're trying to make some changes here, because they're definitely needed - but TBH this seems like a dodgy quick fix that isn't really going to please anyone.

I honestly cannot see any reason not to simply adopt PS1's approach here. I know people get tired of hearing veterans say that, but it really does make sense in this case.

Allow people to deploy more mines (8-10 maybe?)
Reduce damage per mine to 50-75% of current.
Mines should be deployed at your feet, and take a little time to place (like ammo packs)
Mines should have a deployment radius that stops them being placed too close together (equal to outer blast radius?)

Make those changes and you don't need to change how they're detonated. Although I think allowing Engis to disarm them and earn XP by doing so sounds fine.

DeeX · 2013-03-14, 10:45 AM

I don't understand why so much people complain about how tankmines work. Its not "easy" to get close enough to a crowded enemy sunderer and place enough tankmines to blow it up.

If this will change its even more pointless to defend anything, because its near to impossible to kill an enemy sunderer. GG metagame!

Everyone who deploys his sunderer in the middle of a base and leave it mindless without protecting it deserves to lose it. Period

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-14, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

It's a good sign that they're trying to make some changes here, because they're definitely needed - but TBH this seems like a dodgy quick fix that isn't really going to please anyone.

I honestly cannot see any reason not to simply adopt PS1's approach here. I know people get tired of hearing veterans say that, but it really does make sense in this case.

Allow people to deploy more mines (8-10 maybe?)
Reduce damage per mine to 50-75% of current.
Mines should be deployed at your feet, and take a little time to place (like ammo packs)
Mines should have a deployment radius that stops them being placed too close together (equal to outer blast radius?)

Make those changes and you don't need to change how they're detonated. Although I think allowing Engis to disarm them and earn XP by doing so sounds fine.

I competely agree, especially about making mines function like ammo packs when it comes to placing them. That would solve many of the issues with them being used as C4. Only issue I can really see with that is that the terrain can make it fiddly to place things.

Originally Posted by DeeX

I don't understand why so much people complain about how tankmines work. Its not "easy" to get close enough to a crowded enemy sunderer and place enough tankmines to blow it up.

Well one major complaint has been that mines are being used as C4, just throwing them off elevated positions.
I don't really agree that it's not "easy" to get close enough to put down a couple of mines. It's harder to survive after having done so, from what I remember. But what is gained far exceeds what was lost.

Crator · 2013-03-14, 10:49 AM

^ What GateKeeper said!

Kerrec · 2013-03-14, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Canaris

That's what C4 is for, the use of mines with this tactic was poor design choice from the start.

Matter of opinion, but whatever.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if this makes it Live, then the second I can refund my certs, I will get rid of Mines on my engineer. In situations where I want to kill a Sunderer, I will resort to a HA with 2x C4 and a dumbfire rocket. I will also refund my Mineguard certs on my Sunderer...

People that want their "minefields" can waste their certs and resources killing flashes, but I won't.

This change will make mines not worth certing into, and will make Mineguard redundant. Get ready to see every non utility Sundy packing Blockade armor. Gratz on making Mineguard "not a requirement" while making Blockade the obvious choice to take since it reduces every other source of damage (can't possibly be biased towards Blockade, right!?)

No one bothers to discuss the issue that defense is already VERY difficult. Making Sunderers harder to kill is only going to make that WORSE.

Rahabib · 2013-03-14, 10:54 AM

as someone who primarily plays engy - this was needed.

Kerrec · 2013-03-14, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Sonny

Hi GunmanTheH (and all),

I updated the OP with higby's further comments regarding disarming. They have considered the possibility of engies throwing grenades at their own mines to blow them up - now mines will not explode when you or anyone shoots them. Instead, they will just disappear.

Only engineers will get exp for disarming an enemy mine. Destroying one will get you no xp.

Higby was very specific in saying that SMALL ARMS FIRE would destroy them without detonation. However, explosives STILL remain a possible trigger. So 2 mines + sticky grenade will do the same job, just cost a bit more resources.

CraazyCanuck · 2013-03-14, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrec

Matter of opinion, but whatever.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if this makes it Live, then the second I can refund my certs, I will get rid of Mines on my engineer. In situations where I want to kill a Sunderer, I will resort to a HA with 2x C4 and a dumbfire rocket. I will also refund my Mineguard certs on my Sunderer...

People that want their "minefields" can waste their certs and resources killing flashes, but I won't.

This change will make mines not worth certing into, and will make Mineguard redundant. Get ready to see every non utility Sundy packing Blockade armor. Gratz on making Mineguard "not a requirement" while making Blockade the obvious choice to take since it reduces every other source of damage (can't possibly be biased towards Blockade, right!?)

No one bothers to discuss the issue that defense is already VERY difficult. Making Sunderers harder to kill is only going to make that WORSE.

Exactly Kerrec.

CraazyCanuck · 2013-03-14, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrec

Higby was very specific in saying that SMALL ARMS FIRE would destroy them without detonation. However, explosives STILL remain a possible trigger. So 2 mines + sticky grenade will do the same job, just cost a bit more resources.

I think that will need to be reconfirmed because that response from Higby was after someone stated using a grenade to set them off.

Edit: Reason was his wording.

'666 Westy543' who asked:

Okay!

Drop tank mines

Throw grenade

Does add some extra work to it though, it was getting ridiculous."

Higby responded:

In this case we would be allowing the mines to be killed without detonating. Shooting them with smallarms fire would also kill them without detonation, essentially to allow anyone to disarm the mine that some butthole just kamikaze dropped on your sundy without HAVING to be an engineer, as well as making it more than just "Drop them then detonate them"

I would take that as grenades and small arms will destroy the mines without detonation.