Buggies; what role should they fill? - Page 2

CutterJohn · 2012-01-07, 08:40 PM

I personally feel that all buggies should hover. Vanu using magic tech, and NC/TR using thrusters or propellers. Ideally they should control like the tanks in Battlezone2. Making them all hover would give all three factions the capability to fight over water. They should also have some limited jumping ability. Nothing on the scale of a FV, but enough to be able to clear a sunderer, or a base wall if using a hill to ramp.

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

acosmo · 2012-01-07, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

pretty much. they're mobile weapons platforms. buggies are just a way to carry the big guns a high speeds to where they need to be tactically.

Xyntech · 2012-01-07, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I personally feel that all buggies should hover. Vanu using magic tech, and NC/TR using thrusters or propellers. Ideally they should control like the tanks in Battlezone2. Making them all hover would give all three factions the capability to fight over water. They should also have some limited jumping ability. Nothing on the scale of a FV, but enough to be able to clear a sunderer, or a base wall if using a hill to ramp.

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

That's actually pretty interesting. Acting like a bridge between tanks and fighters.

Obviously the TR and NC ones could be more basic thrust hovering, while the VS one, being a cross between the Magrider and the Scythe, could maybe temporarily gain some extra altitude or something.

I'd still like to see buggies get more passenger slots than before, like having all empires buggies being 3 man like the TR's old Marauder was. Just so long as both gunners get some decent guns.

Bottom line is that I'd like to see buggies be unique, awesome and useful. Why waste development time on them if they aren't going to be a valuable contribution to the gameplay? I think that there are enough potential ways to diversify them and make them fill their own unique, valuable niche on the battlefield though. I'm not too worried about seeing them put in down the road.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-07, 10:22 PM

Wouldn't count on buggies to all have hover capability. Modified to float, sure, but not actual floating capability unless SOE is hell bent on making the driver the main gunner as well. The driver=gunner approach might work for a tank, but for a buggy, where driving fast is life, they need to keep their eyes forward.

I'm not against making the task optional for the driver though, just as with handing over the tank cannons to a passenger/gunner. But hrm... 3 people per buggy, I can see that working for ALL empires nicely, though I'm liking the idea of a 2 man hover cycle for the Vanu Sovereignty for some reason.

CutterJohn · 2012-01-07, 10:59 PM

Fixed forward guns work admirably on hover vehicles. A thresher would be well served with a 20mm slapped up front for occasions it could use it.

We could also probably convince them, however, that we're fine with having one combat vehicle thats gunner weapon only so long as its an absolute joy to drive. I think they'd agree.

As for 3 man.. I'd prefer 3 man tanks, personally, but to each their own.

Forsaken One · 2012-01-07, 11:07 PM

this

but maybe with more seats and a bigger gun/guns.

I think a fast, super mobile "hover" buggie would be great.

what would it be good at? its "special" hover ability will let it avoid all mines/stuff placed on the ground. (so able to ride into heavily protected places that a tank could not.)

Each could even have empire style ability's. VS could use a hover jump to maybe jump over short walls/tank traps. TR could have a faster firing thing, and the NC harder hitting thing. all with cooldowns or other balances. lol

Lonehunter · 2012-01-07, 11:54 PM

Hit'n run

N'uf said

acosmo · 2012-01-08, 12:56 AM

: ( buggies are not hit and run, air cav does a much better job at that.

buggies are simply heavy weapons platforms on wheels meant for ranged support (buggies in close range combat don't make sense, they're terribly weak). guns can be more effective in some places than others. this is especially true with mounted weapons and buggies capable of hauling those guns to the best places.

strategically, buggies are best used from a distance almost like sniper vehicles

Xyntech · 2012-01-08, 06:08 AM

I also think that no matter what other AA platforms are in the game, buggies have the potential to be the best. I don't think the game will be broken without them, but I think they'll be the first choice for AA in a lot of situations.

Just being able to get around fast and being a smaller, faster target make it a good choice already, and if it's a glass cannon, it's guns should be pretty devastating to aircraft.

I don't specifically want hover buggies (although I wouldn't mind them, cool idea), but I definitely want some kind of small, fast, multi-crew land vehicle that's useful and a lot of fun.

The biggest reason that I think it should have more than 2 seats is because the deliverer is gone. Merging the ES buggies with the deliverer to create a new, even more useful vehicle would be great. Hell, add in the deliverers amphibious floating ability to the TR and NC variants if you don't want to have them outright hover.

Hmr85 · 2012-01-08, 08:22 AM

I have not really read the other page. With that said. I have always used buggies as a hit and run tactic. A good driver and gunner in a enforcer was devastating to armor if you where good at it.

Speed into the middle of a advancing TR armor column pop a tank or two and haul ass out of there before they could dial in on you.

Skyguard was another great vehicle. Mobile AA that was fast enough to get to a area dominated by skeeters and put some suppressive fire down on the enemy. They where fantastic for harassing fast movers in and around their base and getting out of there. Also great for sitting out in the middle of no where and picking off the few unaware pilots.

My outfit always had two skyguards tag along with our armored column to provide air defense with two Enforcers providing security for the fast moving buggies or needing to chase somebody down. They where very effective.

This is why I really hope they put buggies in the game.

xSlideShow · 2012-01-08, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Erendil

I remember having lots of discussions back in the day on the SOE boards about what the Buggy's role was in PS1. I suspect it'll be very similar in PS2 to what it was in PS1, and it's best viewed when compared to the other vehicles..

MBT's - These are the spearhead of your assault. They are designed to punch holes in enemy defenses, to push the enemy back and move your empire's front lines forward, allowing support troops and vehicles to move up and hold the territory the MBT's just capped. They are also used to bear the brunt of any massed enemy assaults and are used to stop their advance, esp around bottlenecks like bridges and ravines.

Buggies - I think of Buggies as the Harbingers of Chaos.

Their job is to get in amongst enemy forces where they're not yet fully entrenched, stir up the bee's nest, and then get out. They use their superior speed to probe enemy lines to look for weaknesses in the front or along the flanks. If they can get behind the lines to attack enemy support vehicles or vehicles getting repaired, all the better. Otherwise they can just weave in and out amongst enemy forces, killing smaller units and troops and harassing and distracting enemy MBT's.

Buggies are also good at using their superior speed to get into position for flanking attacks on enemy MBT formations, trying to disrupt their forward momentum and again causing chaos so their own Empire's MBT's can move in and mop up. And in PS2 I hope they'll be better than MBT's for AI duties. MBT's IMO should focus more on AV.

Lightnings - They are fast and light much like Buggies, but the driver is also the gunner so they're not as effective weaving in and out of enemy forces since it's harder to concentrate on driving and gunning at the same time. They're best suited for fire support just behind the forward-most point of contact with the enemy and precision striking starting from a place a relative security where they can scan the battlefield for exposed/injured opponents. So fighting right behind MBT's where they can use their speed to zoom in quickly where needed and then zoom back out for repairs, or creeping up on the enemy's flanks to pick off strays, intercept fleeing injured vehicles, etc. They are the U-Boats of PS.

Pretty much got it right. I think the buggies should be the best at killing infantry but require 2+ Gunners to be effective. I would like to see it seat 5 this includes driver, 2 gunners, 2 passengers. It's light armor makes it similar to a skirmisher. So if it's the medics vehicle of choice that would also be cool.

Erendil · 2012-01-08, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

I also think that no matter what other AA platforms are in the game, buggies have the potential to be the best. I don't think the game will be broken without them, but I think they'll be the first choice for AA in a lot of situations.

Just being able to get around fast and being a smaller, faster target make it a good choice already, and if it's a glass cannon, it's guns should be pretty devastating to aircraft.

I don't specifically want hover buggies (although I wouldn't mind them, cool idea), but I definitely want some kind of small, fast, multi-crew land vehicle that's useful and a lot of fun.

The biggest reason that I think it should have more than 2 seats is because the deliverer is gone. Merging the ES buggies with the deliverer to create a new, even more useful vehicle would be great. Hell, add in the deliverers amphibious floating ability to the TR and NC variants if you don't want to have them outright hover.

Cool idea, combining the Deli and Buggy into one vehicle. With amphibious capability.

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

Pretty much got it right. I think the buggies should be the best at killing infantry but require 2+ Gunners to be effective. I would like to see it seat 5 this includes driver, 2 gunners, 2 passengers. It's light armor makes it similar to a skirmisher. So if it's the medics vehicle of choice that would also be cool.

I like this layout. Now imagine if the 2 passengers could fire their infantry weapons...

Knocky · 2012-01-08, 07:48 PM

Baneblade · 2012-01-08, 07:56 PM

Buggies should be more versatile than any other vehicle. The driver should be the driver, but all of them should be able to carry at minimum 3 players. Take the Enforcer as an example here:

The gunner spot can vary between AV, AI, AA, MAX Hauler, Equipment Terminal (which would mean the third guy is just a passenger in a jump seat), and perhaps even a command and control system of some sort.

The current Enforcer could easily have another passenger spot next to the driver just like every other buggy in PS... anyway. That passenger spot could easily be configured to be a lighter AV, AI, or AA weapon seat. Keep the heavy stuff in the back, but have light stuff in front.

They should also be able to change how much armor they have, heavier armor is slower and less maneuverable, light armor is the opposite. But even with the heaviest armor, they would still be paper tanks at best.

Make them somewhat amphibious. Deliverer style perhaps. Being able to ford a river is invaluable.

acosmo · 2012-01-08, 08:43 PM

i doubt we can agree on their purpose but it seems we do agree on their capacity.

highly maneuverable and fast glass cannon.