Should aircraft be able to see infantry on radar?

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Alduron

They should be able to see infantry on the radar only when target is spotted by a teammate. Largely for the role of close air support.

You're missing a lot of senses in games, and it's much easier to flag the enemy on the pilots map than it is to guide him there with long-winded instructions.

It's not an instant kill if an enemy is on the pilots minimap. It almost seems like some of the people above think that rockets and bullets magically one-shot people that are on the minimap. Still takes time/skill to maneuver into position and fire. It looks like aircraft will be doing more flying than in PS1, so I'd imagine pilots would have to plot their runs in order to not be shot out of the sky.

Actually, you have a point. Minimap sighting doesn't make an instant kill...a more important question is, IF there is 3D spotting in the game for infantry, should aircraft be able to see 3D spots of infantry, because that WILL make for more instant kills? Considering that there shouldn't be 3D spotting at all, that goes double for aircraft.

NOTE: In the event infantry 3D spotting is squad only(a reasonable compromise), then in that event, there should still be no ability for aircraft to see 3D spots. Squads should be able to place static 3D air support request markers, and that's all.

[Stew]

No air craft driver should have skills and eagle eyes to be true bad ass pilots the aircraft domination must be HARD as possible to achive it will also be more rewarding for the few who can acomplish that

[Atheosim]

Firstly, infantry farming has already been powerfully nerfed by making hovering in an aircraft extremely dangerous and difficult. Secondly, and as a result of this, it will be much more difficult to effectively engage infantry. Thirdly we don't even know how well aircav weaponry will function against infantry.

[Whalenator]

Guys, are we paying any attention here?
Planetside 2's population density will be at least twice that of a poplocked con in early Planetside (if not more).

If you find yourself as a handful of infantry facing an aircraft that's stupid enough to sit there and hover, the aircraft's going to get shot down by one of the 665 teammates near to you.

I think radar = yes, with platoon-wide data sharing.

[Crator]

I'm voting yes. With same restrictions that PS1 had in regards to radar mechanics.

[Malorn]

I think this poll is a bit misleading/uninformative because we don't clearly know how spotting and radar works in PS2 and it appears to be a poll in the context of PS1.

We know a radar upgrade for some vehicles exists as a utility slot (tradeoff would be flares or safe-bail or other similar thing), and in PS2 that may very well be an auto-spotting mechanism for anything under the radar's effects, and it might have the same restrictions that the mosquito had in PS1. Due to different flight mechanics and a cockpit blocking view of stuff directly below the aircraft it could quite easily be balanced.

So then the question is does anything at all show up on your radar that is hostile if it is not spotted?

Do radar-like mechanics auto-spot?

If the answer is yes to both of those then there's no need for aircraft minimap to be any different from any other minimap.

I don't think anything hostile should show up on any radar that is not ether spotted or within range of a vehicle with radar/auto-spot functionality. If someone has spotted the infantry, or the aircraft has a radar utility upgrade (like the old mosquito), then absolutely it should show up. Someone spotted it, the pilot should receive that information.

[Mezorin]

Any unit should see another unit's "spots" or what ever else, as that's sort of the point to having coordination in a game. Should planes have the ability to "motion sense"? If they sacrifice the missile slot for a radar scout suite, sure, why not? The guys who can see/spot ground troops will be food for the guys who specialize purely in air to air combat anyways. Remember what Higby said: every load out will mean sacrificing something.

We all know how much air cav dominated everything else in PS1, but that likely won't be the case this time around as anyone can just swap out a heavy assault load out, or slap an AA turret on their tank. If you are getting one sided aircav farmed it will not be because you had a lack of reliable things that could shoot planes, it will be because you didn't use them.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Mezorin

Any unit should see another unit's "spots" or what ever else, as that's sort of the point to having coordination in a game. Should planes have the ability to "motion sense"? If they sacrifice the missile slot for a radar scout suite, sure, why not? The guys who can see/spot ground troops will be food for the guys who specialize purely in air to air combat anyways. Remember what Higby said: every load out will mean sacrificing something.

We all know how much air cav dominated everything else in PS1, but that likely won't be the case this time around as anyone can just swap out a heavy assault load out, or slap an AA turret on their tank. If you are getting one sided aircav farmed it will not be because you had a lack of reliable things that could shoot planes, it will be because you didn't use them.

When 1 person can spot for 600, it's not coordination, it's zerging. It's an extreme force multiplier that allows a reward to be reaped that's far beyond any skill, planning, or situational awareness that was sown. And simple line of sight radar is even worse. That's not even spotting.

I don't understand the point of having a large scale game if things like this are going to undo it all, destroy stealth, etc.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

When 1 person can spot for 600, it's not coordination, it's zerging. It's an extreme force multiplier that allows a reward to be reaped that's far beyond any skill, planning, or situational awareness that was sown. And simple line of sight radar is even worse. That's not even spotting.

I don't understand the point of having a large scale game if things like this are going to undo it all, destroy stealth, etc.

Ya, that was a bit OP the way he described it. But what about having a spot mechanic so the infantry can click on the target and the radar shows the target for a short time. It wouldn't track the target though. The spotter would have to re-target to change the loc of the spot on the radar.

The mosqituo ability was cool and I think should be kept. But what about giving a UAV ability too?

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Crator

Ya, that was a bit OP the way he described it. But what about having a spot mechanic so the infantry can click on the target and the radar shows the target for a short time. It wouldn't track the target though. The spotter would have to re-target to change the loc of the spot on the radar.

I would prefer that squad leaders only be able to place 3D air support request markers. They do not spot and follow individual infantry, they are simply a notification for the aircraft to look for infantry in the area. I think that's much better and is actual teamwork.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I would prefer that squad leaders only be able to place 3D air support request markers. They do not spot and follow individual infantry, they are simply a notification for the aircraft to look for infantry in the area. I think that's much better and is actual teamwork.

Why can't there be both? I don't see how infantry having the ability to provide target spotting in this way is not teamwork oriented. And it's the data that the squad leader can use to figure out where to properly place air support markers. I see what you are saying though. You don't want everyone in the squad to know the intel because they won't make proper tactical decisions on what to do and will break away in pursuit of an objective that the squad hasn't set. Ok, well allow all troops to spot but give that intel only to the squad leader.

Sorry, went a little off topic... Was relevant though....

[Alduron]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Actually, you have a point. Minimap sighting doesn't make an instant kill...a more important question is, IF there is 3D spotting in the game for infantry, should aircraft be able to see 3D spots of infantry, because that WILL make for more instant kills? Considering that there shouldn't be 3D spotting at all, that goes double for aircraft.

NOTE: In the event infantry 3D spotting is squad only(a reasonable compromise), then in that event, there should still be no ability for aircraft to see 3D spots. Squads should be able to place static 3D air support request markers, and that's all.

I'm on the fence about spotting from the air. I don't mind vehicles that don't have weapons spotting (or using some kind of drone to spot) but a weapons platform should not be able to use spotting in order to track a target it chooses.

I'm largely in favor for a close air support request system. Maybe a flashing marker of some sort (IR) that can be thrown/launched from grenade tube. You'd toss/launch it around the target and the friendly aircraft in the area would see the marker and focus attacks around that area. It would be dependent on skill, aircraft can't mark, and you can still call in air support outside your squad (which is helpful if there is a squad/outfit specializing in air support).

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Crator

Why can't there be both? I don't see how infantry having the ability to provide target spotting in this way is not teamwork oriented. And it's the data that the squad leader can use to figure out where to properly place air support markers. I see what you are saying though. You don't want everyone in the squad to know the intel because they won't make proper tactical decisions on what to do and will break away in pursuit of an objective that the squad hasn't set. Ok, well allow all troops to spot but give that intel only to the squad leader.

Sorry, went a little off topic... Was relevant though....

No, everyone in the squad is fine. I'm talking about the entire empire receiving the data.

But why would anyone 3D spot for their squadmates if simple line of sight spots everyone on the radar? For that reason I think we're doomed to 3D spotting, whereas the real answer is not to have automatic line of sight minimap spotting, and then give squads 3D spots.

[Baneblade]

Radar shouldn't see anything on the ground.

[Blackwolf]

Infantry make up very small targets to aircraft. I agree whole heartedly with Stardouser's idea. If SLs or leadership could place air support markers indicating areas of interest for infantry hunting gunships, that would be enough.

Infantry should really be invisible to radar for everything but infantry, and those ground vehicles loaded out with infantry detecting radar. They should pose a threat to vehicles because of their smaller size and near-impossible detectability unless they pop out and shoot the tank.

Personally, I think infantry spotting should only occur when you engage a target in combat. That is, no LOS spotting, you actually have to shoot (and hit), or be shot by the target for it to show up on radar for yourself and squad mates. The way hotspots show up in PS1 on the main map.

The target would only appear as a blip on radar and not be updated (position wise) unless you shoot it again, or it shoots you. While it's on radar it fades over the course of a few seconds (unless updated). Basically the blip is a radar hotspot.