Best / Worst - Rate Weapons and Vehicles

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

HA
1a. MCG
1b. JH
3. Lasher

MA
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

Tank
1. Vanguard
2. Prowler
3. Magrider

Transports
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Buggy
1. Enforcer
2. Thresher
3. Marauder

AI MAX
1. Scatt (its just that much better)
2.
3. Quasar/DC

AA MAX
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

AV MAX
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon


NC - 20½
VS - 17½
TR - 15

[jakaul]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

In defense of the Quasar. This max is best for SURPRISE you're dead fun times.

For example;

3 enemy drop on your tower. You feel vulnerable. Their SOP: boomer stairs, decis at ready. If you a scatmax or cycler, going up those stairs is near suicidal.

Quasar.. we fly high so high BAAALLIN. You don't go up stairs, 1) go outside, 2) fly to the top, 3) shoot 'em in the back like a boss!

One of them will have audio alert...

[Kouza]

Originally Posted by Leet

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.
3. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive. Incapable of killing otherwise :P


AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

This is close between two and three however, it must be noted that the arc makes the pounder a hard outdoor AV max (When has any one used a pounder outside? :P, and that if a OPFOR AI max puts him self AGAINST the TR max when the duel begins the TR max will kill its self before he kills the OPFOR. (As long as the opfor actually shoots him a couple times)

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

These are kind of back and forward I actually feel good balance here. Each is good in its own respect, Sparrow is weaker because it will chase you two fucking grid spaces.

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Prowler is best 1 v 1 However, it has no AA capability unless you put in a chaingun, which then creates the numbers issues ill put down below (10 tanks vs 15)

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors
3. Raider

Changed this for one reason, YES the Raider will win every time 1 v 1 with an Aurora but, something if being forgotten here. A platoon of Raiders = 6 Raiders... A platoon of Auroras= 10 Auroras

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.
Same as above. A platoon of Enforcers of Threshers is 15 A platoon of Mauraders... 10

This one seemed closest to correct for me. Edited red to show what I changed.

Will also mention that though I play TR Main, this is from playing all Empires.

MAXES: TR maxes would be great if no one had special abilities but, VS maxes can jump to avoid Decis and NC maxes have a fucking shield to absorb an extra.

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.

VS Max can jump to avoid reaver rockets.

TR Max is exceptionally good at taking reaver rockets like a bitch.

-----

Vehicles, I actually feel that on a 1 to 1 Basis TR vehicles are the BEST... However, the let down is that this Buff is underdone when you take the fact that 10 Prowlers, cannot defeat 15 Magriders, or Vannies, and 6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Kouza

6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

This is something I really want to try now.

[MCYRook]

Originally Posted by Kouza

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.

Oooh, look who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about!

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Kouza

This one seemed closest to correct for me. Edited red to show what I changed.

Will also mention that though I play TR Main, this is from playing all Empires.

MAXES: TR maxes would be great if no one had special abilities but, VS maxes can jump to avoid Decis and NC maxes have a fucking shield to absorb an extra.

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.

VS Max can jump to avoid reaver rockets.

TR Max is exceptionally good at taking reaver rockets like a bitch.

-----

Vehicles, I actually feel that on a 1 to 1 Basis TR vehicles are the BEST... However, the let down is that this Buff is underdone when you take the fact that 10 Prowlers, cannot defeat 15 Magriders, or Vannies, and 6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

If you count on tank to do the AA job, you're doing it wrong. At least in terms of tanks, count 15 Prowlers vs 15 VG, the AA cover should be done separately (even for mags, counting on them to do the AA job would be silly, even though on a 1vs1 basis, they are by far the best suited to resist a reaver). The Prowler doesn't need the 2nd gunner to outdamage the other 2 tanks.

For buggies and ES-Delis, though, unfortunately yes, TR get the lower end of the business because of this number thing.

[Kouza]

Originally Posted by MCYRook

Oooh, look who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about!

Its not to say a reaver cannot easily kill a NC AA max... LOL... Let me rephrase, an entire barrage of Rocket missiles will kill a max.... An Entire barrage will severely inhibit a NC max however, if the NC max flips his shield until it absorbs and runs out, then starts shooting the Reaver will have to reload, allowing the Max to take care of a newer Fly Boy Easily.

EDIT: Went to do a field test with this, you were right a perfect hit with ALL ROCKETS, will kill a NC max with shields. That being said, One miss will cause a reload, and death. Still majorly unfavorable if your TR IMO. However, I will admit I was wrong on my statement.

Kalbuth: Yes the most common sense thing to do when you are running a Prowler Team is to pull a SG to protect it.. Me and the Original Poster were talking about the Tanks Ability to kill aircraft and protect ITSELF.

My argument is that the Prowler is the Best 1 v 1 Tank in the game if you land all your shots IMO that would be my pick.

HOWEVER: When to fully equip a Prowler compared to the other two you out pop your self 1.5 to 1... I know I know what a small number.... So let me compare it this way.

1.5 to 1
3 to 2
6 to 4
15 to 10
150 to 100
300 to 200

Suddenly you realize winning 1 v 1 fights is not to your advantage any longer.

[Kalbuth]

Point being : DO NOT CREW YOUR PROWLERS WITH 3 PEOPLE. Why do you do it?
Your calculations are theorical based on a scenario which shouldn't happen.
Don't crew your prowlers with 3, but 2 people, redo your calculation, realise the 2 crew Prowler still outdammage any other tank, and you have a winner, bare the shitty handling of the beast which simply kills him (and this is why I rate magrider higher)

Stop throwing at me your 3 vs 2 comparisons, they are meaningless in case of a prowler, because in 2 vs 2 scenario (without 2nd gunner), the prowler is still better. So use a real world scenario, ie 2 crew prowler, and redo the comparison.
They are true, though, when talking about TR ES buggy or ES Deli variant, for which the crew vs damage ratio is not favoring them at all, because these vehicles don't have enough damage when only crewed with 2 (or 3 for Deli variant comparison) people.

Saying you are theorically outdamaged per crew is meaningless if you have also a scenario where you outdamage others per crew. Use the correct scenario to your advantage. Ie : put 2 people in your tanks, AA protection with a true AA SG. Case solved.

[MCYRook]

See, I realize that subjective overall weapon ratings like we're doing here are sometimes down to preference and often hard to objectively justify. However, I'm pretty adamant that the Sparrow is a big steaming pile of crap compared to both Burster and Starfire, and anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't know what he's talking about. Can't put it any friendlier way. So if someone does go as far as to make a statement that's just factually wrong, I tend to rather rudely point my finger at that. Sorry for that.

Went to do a field test with this, you were right a perfect hit with ALL ROCKETS, will kill a NC max with shields. That being said, One miss will cause a reload, and death.

Reload and death? How about switch to chainguns, finish him off, and get away with still plenty of health because the Sparrow couldn't fire until his shields went dry and does piss poor DPS even after that?

(See, that's what I meant...)

Still majorly unfavorable if your TR IMO.

No doubt that a locked-down Burster is a sitting duck (which is why you don't lock down until you actually want to fire). But a Burster on lockdown or overdrive runs a pretty tight DPS race against a Reaver if both open up simultaneously. A Sparrow is just so far behind it's never even a contest, especially after the completely unnecessary 20% Reaver armor buff. If the Reaver gets the drop on them, both are dead meat. Only the Starfire gets to LOLjumpjet.

[Kouza]

Kalbuth- I challenge you to successfully protect a Prowler from a Reaver with just a Main Gun successfully on a normal Basis. It simply cannot be done the way a Vanny or a Magrider can do it... I`m Not arguing with you per-say, you`re holding up Apples to my Oranges. Why would I not put some sort of ability to protect myself to aircraft on my vehicle?

Rook- Actually after playing with it a bit i`m starting to see a little of what you are saying. I feel like the Burster is GREAT as long as you catch them off guard. The sparrow seems to be more of an Area Denial weapon.. I feel like if I was running sparrow I would have to attach to some armor to protect me. I would like to point out that alot of players are totally oblivious to what to do when I shoot at them with this thing though.

IMO: I think all the AA maxes would be just fine if they would take that fucking buff back off... No one man should have that much power in one vehicle. lol

[Nausicaa]

God reminded me of the old AI pounder that thing was a beast, remeber when burster flack hit all targets not just air -_-

I really Like NC AV Max, while its not the very best at taking out other maxes as the comet or dealing with vehicles like the pounder, its fantastic for coping with other threats like infantry and aircraft, kind of reminds me of the old AV Dual Cycler.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Kouza

Kalbuth- I challenge you to successfully protect a Prowler from a Reaver with just a Main Gun successfully on a normal Basis. It simply cannot be done the way a Vanny or a Magrider can do it... I`m Not arguing with you per-say, you`re holding up Apples to my Oranges. Why would I not put some sort of ability to protect myself to aircraft on my vehicle?

Because this is your tradeoff for having the largest DPS output of the 3 tanks, by far, while still holding big anti-infantry capability and more than decent enough armor to be a 1vs1 winner in a tank battle in nearly every scenario.
Ie : you cannot have the best in every category. Prowler weakness is aircraft self-defense.
But the counter to that ("bring SG with you") is so logical and efficient that imho it doesn't kill Prowler effectiveness, at all.
You want everything going your way, it's not happening. No tank is having everything for it.
Magrider weakness is infantry, VG is not being the best in any category.

Again, I prefer calculation done on a real situation, instead of focusing only on the weak point of your armor and acting like it would make your armor unusable.
If you find yourself in a situation with 1 gunner facing a reaver without any air cover, you failed somewhere, the ennemy outsmarted you, or you are in the process of retreating and soon back in your AA cover before you get killed.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by MCYRook

No doubt that a locked-down Burster is a sitting duck (which is why you don't lock down until you actually want to fire). But a Burster on lockdown or overdrive runs a pretty tight DPS race against a Reaver if both open up simultaneously. A Sparrow is just so far behind it's never even a contest, especially after the completely unnecessary 20% Reaver armor buff. If the Reaver gets the drop on them, both are dead meat. Only the Starfire gets to LOLjumpjet.

Burster 1v1 on a reaver isn't even close anymore since the 20% armor buff, add cyssor bennie and amp station shields and you are lucky to get the reaver to half health before you die.

I find a bit interesting how the population numbers have drastically changed the balance of AA maxes. With battles back for the past two years that were fairly small and only a bit of armor running around the bases and a lot of stuff in the air the Burster was just no fun to play at all. Peenixes would snipe you anywhere in the CY and the moment you looked up to shoot at a max altitude lib you got a whole barrage of reaver rockets up the ass. During this time the Sparrow moving around could end up killing any plane that flew into the CY without their AB at full.

Now with the pops up, the distance from the CY infantry and aircav can be has moved out. What this has done is allowed the burster to be a bit safer and able to concentrate on aircraft more and mow down anyone that was used to flying in and strafing basewalls and flying ABing away again. The sparrow due to the lock on time is back to the role of scaring air away rather than killing it.

Skillfire seems pretty unchanged.

When it comes to ES MBTs Buggies and Deli-varients I guess hard numbers and what not comes down to (for me) what I would rather play in. Based on that as a gunner it is Mag>Vannie>Prowler for Deli Varients Thundy=Raider (if it is a squad filled raider on voice comms NOT randoms) >>>> Aurora. For buggies? Save for the time it takes me to get used to the timing and travel time for the Enforcer rockets I like them all pretty evenly. The extra person in the marauder seems like less of an issue than it is in the raider just because of the way they are used and pulled.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

The Enforcer is one shot one kill with softies. Great fun for drive-by lulz.

Actually that was part of my point about getting used to the travel time and re-fire rate of the Enforcer. If you are bad like me then 1shot kills are useless when you miss... the Marauder and Thresher are a little easier to start farming infantry.

[MCYRook]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

The Enforcer is one shot one kill with softies.

Not anymore. But it's still awesome.