Slavery IS Legal in America - Page 2

Neurotoxin · 2012-05-22, 02:47 PM

Prisons in America weren't meant to be like the old British dungeons, they were originally intended to be reformatory in nature. In Cuba, someone can get a degree in nursing while in prison. So every prisoner needs to be treated like a human being with dignity and respect, and given the means and ability to improve themselves.

The way to resolve crime is jobs, not guns and over-vigilant police enforcement. If everyone has access to an equitable job, a home, food, and entertainment, they have no motivation to ruin what they have by going out and committing crimes.

RawketLawnchair · 2012-05-22, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Geist

Sorry, but as soon as you take the life of another person in cold blood, you just lost all your rights as a human being.

Depends on what state you live in.

Geist · 2012-05-22, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin

Prisons in America weren't meant to be like the old British dungeons, they were originally intended to be reformatory in nature. In Cuba, someone can get a degree in nursing while in prison. So every prisoner needs to be treated like a human being with dignity and respect, and given the means and ability to improve themselves.

The way to resolve crime is jobs, not guns and over-vigilant police enforcement. If everyone has access to an equitable job, a home, food, and entertainment, they have no motivation to ruin what they have by going out and committing crimes.

Agreed.

Depends on what state you live in.

Should lose all your rights as a human being.

Warborn · 2012-05-22, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by SniperSteve

People in prison should not have it nice, IMO.

Why? People always advocate for harsh conditions for prisoners, but nobody ever has a good reason why that should be the case beyond "they are prisoners, fuck them", which is infantile. Compare the brutal, draconian American prisons to the almost college dorm-like Norwegian prisons. Then compare their results. Despite having prisons which do not torture and dehumanize prisoners, Norway's prisons get far, far better results than American prisons, where sheriffs and politicians brag about how tough they are in crime by pointing to the horrible conditions and long sentences they force prisoners to endure.

Harsh punishment and long sentences do not create well-adjusted citizens out of inmates. Prisons should be as nice as they need to be to ensure that rehabilitation is possible. Once you forget that the whole point of prison is to correct harmful behaviours if possible, you become a tyrant.

Originally Posted by elfailo

Labor is crucial to rehabilitation and many prisoners actually like having something to do, it makes them feel useful.

Optional work programs that are designed to teach inmates useful skills and work ethic in such a way as to not devalue the labour of free people working in a particular industry is fine. Compelled labour meant to earn a profit for the company running the prison is not fine.

Effective · 2012-05-22, 10:55 PM

You broke the law, it shouldn't be all flowers and candy when you go to prison. Prison has 2 purposes, to punish those who break the law, and to rehabilitate them to make them suitable to be in the public. Now, some punishments can be overly harsh, yes, but depending on what they did to put themselves in prison, I may not honestly care all that much.

Child molesters and people who murder in cold blood should be treated like the animals in my opinion.

CutterJohn · 2012-05-22, 11:27 PM

It costs less to put someone through college for a year than prison.

Imo, anyone who goes to prison for more than 4 years can get out in 4 if they get a degree. 1st offense, ofc. 2nd, you had your chance.

Another thing that needs to change is the felony being on your record forever. Once you're out of prison, you've paid your debt, and deserve a chance to start over fresh. A felony record makes it very difficult to get a job. Employers will just toss your resume unless you've got some good connections or very in demand skills. It just becomes a self perpetuating cycle.

Frankly, we just hand out prison far, far too readily and for much too long. Prison should be reserved for violent offenders that are a threat to the safety of others ONLY. Murderers, rapists, assault, armed robbery, etc. People that did something bad, but didn't hurt anyone else? Probation only, and if they persist, at worst sent to a penal colony like Bastoy Prison, where they are segregated from society, not treated like animals.

Warborn · 2012-05-23, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Frankly, we just hand out prison far, far too readily and for much too long. Prison should be reserved for violent offenders that are a threat to the safety of others ONLY. Murderers, rapists, assault, armed robbery, etc. People that did something bad, but didn't hurt anyone else? Probation only, and if they persist, at worst sent to a penal colony like Bastoy Prison, where they are segregated from society, not treated like animals.

Ah, but you see, these private prisons rely on having a booming population of inmates to make money off of their forced labour and general fees associated with their incarceration. There is a powerful lobby in the US which seeks to keep the War on Drugs and its associated non-violent prison sentences going as long as possible.

Originally Posted by Effective

Now, some punishments can be overly harsh, yes, but depending on what they did to put themselves in prison, I may not honestly care all that much.

Child molesters and people who murder in cold blood should be treated like the animals in my opinion.

Congratulations on having a shit opinion, I guess?

Red Beard · 2012-05-23, 06:39 PM

When they convict someone (for whatever garbage crime they invent next by the way), they put a monetary value on the case on the day of sentencing. They put someone in prison and float bonds on them...this is how you "pay your debt to society" (the law society I think).

Effective · 2012-05-23, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Congratulations on having a shit opinion, I guess?

So because I believe that someone who rapes and molests 6 year olds is basically scum of the earth and not deserving of redemption, my opinion is shitty? Please tell me more.

Red Beard · 2012-05-23, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Effective

So because I believe that someone who rapes and molests 6 year olds is basically scum of the earth and not deserving of redemption, my opinion is shitty? Please tell me more.

Because you start constructing your own prison in your search for vengeance.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/...mestic-drones/

Effective · 2012-05-23, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

Because you start constructing your own prison in your search for vengeance.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/...mestic-drones/

Meh, drones and prison system are 2 separate topics to me. Is the potential abuse (for privacy and other things) an issue? Yeah sure, but it means little to the plain and simple fact, that people who do things that are downright wrong (IE, things that cause actual harm to a person) don't exactly deserve a lot of sympathy.

Warborn · 2012-05-24, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Effective

So because I believe that someone who rapes and molests 6 year olds is basically scum of the earth and not deserving of redemption, my opinion is shitty? Please tell me more.

Someone convicted of multiple rapes involving minors could be incarcerated for life depending on the circumstances and the place they live. Such people would be considered by the court to be beyond redemption. I don't really care about discussing the appropriateness of rape punishments. The point I'm making is that people in prison are already in prison. They do not need every luxury taken from them, to live a life of concrete and iron and be fed slop and have meager options for recreation. Prison is not supposed to be torturous, even for people remanded there for their lifetime. Your dumb example conveniently flips from you not giving a shit about the welfare of prisoners to "omg pedophile rapists", though, so you'll forgive me if this seems disjointed I'm sure.

Effective · 2012-05-24, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Yes, because you believe that your opinion is shit. Criminal justice is not about indulging your torture fantasies. Once upon a time the treatment of criminals was dictated by savages such as yourself who didn't care about the suffering of prisoners based on their own individual proclivities. But, these days, we've progressed as a society to the point where crimes are met with appropriate punishments in the pursuit of justice and rehabilitation.

Hello strawman. Hello ad hominen. You don't know me. Stop presuming you do.

Warborn · 2012-05-24, 03:12 AM

That's just the point. You don't make a difference. Justice is supposed to be impartial. Your own history of being raped when you were six has no relevance to what is an appropriate punishment for people like your attacker.

Also, no, not straw man. But I know people use that term a lot so I don't blame you for riding the popular straw man rollercoaster. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Effective · 2012-05-24, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

That's just the point. You don't make a difference. Justice is supposed to be impartial. Your own history of being raped when you were six has no relevance to what is an appropriate punishment for people like your attacker.

You're still assuming knowledge you don't have (and is wrong). I've never been raped, nor do I know anyone who has (to my knowledge).

And yes, it is a strawman. I never said prisoners should be tortured (nor do I have torture fantasies as you put it). You're blowing up my position into something overly radical. No different then if I were to suggest that you believe all criminals should be allowed to go free after a slap on the wrist.