Lattice Lanes - PS2 For Dummies

[basti]

Originally Posted by subDii

Sure hope I see the "light" as you now do about lattice, at least by the time it becomes a part of all the other continents. But so far I'm not digging it. Feels like it's taking strategic depth away from flanking maneuvers.

edit: English

Capping an empty base because you dont want to take the challenge of a enemy force is not flanking, its ghost capping.

[Galron]

Can't get enough of these ghost capper tears, keep up the Q_Q while I enjoy my massive fights, losers.

[Baneblade]

What was so brilliant about being able to completely sidestep the entire point of the game in the first place?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

What was so brilliant about being able to completely sidestep the entire point of the game in the first place?

For some reason they consider it "freedom", "sandbox" and "beating the enemy without fighting because they were too stupid to not defend it".

Completely missing the point that if this happens that often, that the game doesn't provide enough concentration to make fights actually happen in other places than the last few chokepoints and the few defense farms.

What I also don't get is that they keep speaking of flanking (where they mean encircling and cutting off supply lines to the zerg, since they never actually engage a flank of the zerg). While doing so, they do not expect heavy resistance for some reason either, or blame the enemy for being somewhere else.

I also find it funny they keep talking about what they can do as small groups to avoid the zerg fight and expand nonetheless. Without realising that if that zerg spreads out a bit and steamrolls on, they'll be destroyed even faster.

30% pop facing 70% stands a much better chance holding something if they can concentrate their defense in two locations to hold 9 locations, rather than having to defend each separately. For some reason, they don't see that splitting up the defenders means each defender will be steamrolled independently.

The zergs are small enough to make an impact on. Yesterday for instance, our squad used two of the Tawrich main building turrets to severely weaken if not kill the Magriders and Sunderers entering Tawrich Depot.

A small group of VS that went around the Depot before actually caused a breakthrough as it shifted part of our defense elsewhere, splitting us up and making us pull back. Our own group of 3 tanks then flanked them, took out 7 Sunderers and 4 tanks, some infantry and their sneaky "we get tanks here" point at Tawrich Tower, before pushing them back towards the crossroads.

We were severely outnumbered at first and the enemy team (largely consisting of ISK) was pretty coordinated. It was a good fight where they hit an attrition point (lack of tanks) to sustain the attack.

I do think the SCU rules and spawn rules need to change and as you can see by my thread, I wouldn't mind a few extra links for spec. ops. But all in all, it's a fight you can influence by flanking the zerg and actually harassing and engaging them.

But I've seen more fights push deeper into enemy terrain and then hit a bottleneck than before. I've seen NC and VS expand naturally into the north, which didn't happen before. That means there are more areas to attack and so far these small squads have been too dependent on solid spawnpoints to realise you can just as easily work with a couple behind the lines AMSes. But yes, we do need more alternate systems for sabotage and sieging.

[Maarvy]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

What was so brilliant about being able to completely sidestep the entire point of the game in the first place?

You havent seen that many of our "spec ops" teams are massive sun tzu fanboys ?.

So im told : 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.'

Or as I like to call it : " The art of playing without having fun "

[MrMak]

Originally Posted by Maarvy

You havent seen that many of our "spec ops" teams are massive sun tzu fanboys ?.

So im told : 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.'

Or as I like to call it : " The art of playing without having fun "

Honestly im a bigger fan of "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!"

Especialy the last part.

[Sledgecrushr]

Really I just like to fight. There is nothing more lame than when ops tells us to move to a continent where we have an overwhelming majority. I would rather be stuck in a giant losing fight than win with ghost capping.

[Illtempered]

Sometimes you have to sidestep an enemy force to get the flank you want. Yes this may involve the infamous "ghost-cap" on a base or two. Remember it's not your fault they aren't defending these bases. Deconstruct anyone? How hard is that?

I'm always looking for a fight. But, I want the fight to be on my terms, not theirs, especially if I'm assaulting. On Waterson we always had huge fights on Indar anyway. I didn't know it was broken....

Sure it could always use some tweaking but atm Indar just seems like we'll be fighting at the same bases over and over, even more than we did before. We'll roll with the punches though and keep farming nubs regardless.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Illtempered

Sometimes you have to sidestep an enemy force to get the flank you want. Yes this may involve the infamous "ghost-cap" on a base or two. Remember it's not your fault they aren't defending these bases. Deconstruct anyone? How hard is that?

I'm always looking for a fight. But, I want the fight to be on my terms, not theirs, especially if I'm assaulting. On Waterson we always had huge fights on Indar anyway. I didn't know it was broken....

Sure it could always use some tweaking but atm Indar just seems like we'll be fighting at the same bases over and over, even more than we did before. We'll roll with the punches though and keep farming nubs regardless.

I absolutely abhor ghostcapping. To take a base with either no resistance or very little is boring. Standing around watching the timer click down over and over again is boring.

I am so incredibly happy with the lattice. Now when I cap a base its a much deserved break from the grinding, inch by bloody inch fighting that took place prior. Its a time to celebrate a hard won victory before then next assault takes place.

And we havent even scratched the surface on lattice tactics. Just knowing where the enemy is going gives you so many options. I dont think real spec ops outfits have had it this good.

[Illtempered]

So it's your policy to never take an undefended base, no matter how important the base is? What if there are lazy enemies right next door? What if there are people there when you decide to attack, but when you get there they're gone? Do you leave the base?

Edit to say: Ah, no wonder you love the lattice. Your'e in Devil Dogs. Yeah not many people want to frontally assault a base guarded by a massive outfit. I'm sure you love getting all those nubs funneled to you now.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Illtempered

So it's your policy to never take an undefended base, no matter how important the base is? What if there are lazy enemies right next door? What if there are people there when you decide to attack, but when you get there they're gone? Do you leave the base?

I think you don't quite catch the drift.

Edit to say: Ah, no wonder you love the lattice. Your'e in Devil Dogs. Yeah not many people want to frontally assault a base guarded by a massive outfit. I'm sure you love getting all those nubs funneled to you now.

Being in a zergfit has nothing to do with it. If anything, they have it harder because they become funneled as they are the big group on the offensive.

Defenders (the ones outnumbered) prefer a funnel over having to be spread thinner than they are already.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Illtempered

So it's your policy to never take an undefended base, no matter how important the base is? What if there are lazy enemies right next door? What if there are people there when you decide to attack, but when you get there they're gone? Do you leave the base?

Edit to say: Ah, no wonder you love the lattice. Your'e in Devil Dogs. Yeah not many people want to frontally assault a base guarded by a massive outfit. I'm sure you love getting all those nubs funneled to you now.

Yes without lattice it is very tactically sound to avoid the enemy and ghost cap like crazy. We are trying to win the war right? Sun tzu said to fight the enemy where they arent. But to me this isnt a real war, this is a game and I like to have fun.

Yes as a commander playing the meta game it totally makes sense to ghost cap your way to an exposed flank. It seems that way anyways but the enemy is right behind you ghost capping everything you just spent hours capping. You end up in an endles circle of ghost capping where both sides are afraid to commit there resources in a face to face fight.

But you see Im more of a barbarian. I want to close with the enemy and trade blows. I want to get stuck in an 8 hour battle. I want to climb over the burning wreckage in wave after glorious wave of battle.

Last night on the connery server, indar continent we were told to move to esamir when the fighting got too tough. We were sent to esamir because it was soft and easy. Of course this made sense to ops because they want to win. It made sense because it was soft and easy going on esamir.

We need lattice on every continent. No more cream puff game play. No more of this tactic of avoidance. Let us come together and battle!!!

[Illtempered]

Now now, don't exaggerate what I said. I didn't say go all Sun Tzu on their ass. I just said "sometimes".

[AThreatToYou]

And my response is: Always.

Always there must be battle. Always we must be earning bonus checks for the check throne. Always we must be spilling capital for the capital god. For every yard of ground between our objective and our base, there must be an engineer and a MAX unit giving us a hard time. A challenge for every meter of our metric will result in a maximum capacity for fun.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Shogun

must be one of those famous "specops" who used to avoid the enemy to capture empty bases. that´s the only group of players that might be pissed about the lattice and call it dumbing down.

Well "specops" have a really important roll to fill now. Stall the enemy long enough for support to arrive. If you can hold one of three flags for an example you will give every one else allot more time to respond for an example.