Will vehicles only have a first person view?

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Traak

I agree that having no third-person view except top-down immediate-vicinity view is a good idea.

How about cameras that have a couple screens to your sides on the lower parts of your HUD that show views around your vehicle? FROM your vehicle, not the floaty miracle-technology-cam views?

That'd be an interesting idea. It'd be nice to have a little camera window anyway that points in the opposite direction of your turret so you could see where you're driving when firing behind you while being chased.

In the end though, if so many people can't even handle driving and gunning at the same time I suspect multiple simultaneous views might make things even more difficult/frustrating for them. 3rdPV is a much simpler solution.

Originally Posted by Traak

If you want to know if there are enemy vehicles around, get out and look or listen. You're in a vehicle, you can't have ALL the advantages and none of the disadvantages.

Now you're just being obtuse. Get out of your vehicle every time you want to look around? Really? That kinda defeats the purpose of being inside all of that armour.

And being in a tank isn't all roses ya know. Softies have lots of advantages over tanks. A tank is a big, noisy target that draws lots of enemy fire. A softie is small, quiet, and can quite easily go unnoticed and sneak up on the enemy. A tank is on a timer but a softie is not. A tank can only be pulled from a vehicle term, a softie can spawn at the nearest spawn point. At tank can't heal itself, can't go indoors, can't go on catwalks, walls or other battlements, can't rez friendlies, can't fly, can't turn invisible, can't setup passive defenses, can't do any one of a number of things that softies can and do perform on a regular basis.

Softies have a huge advantage over tanks in the form of versatility. In exchange they are relatively weak and can die quicker, but they can also respawn and get back into the battle quicker as well. Tanks give up their versatility and quick re-engagment time to be faster, have more armour, and more firepower.

I don't think giving vehicles 3rdPV is unbalancing given that they can't sneak up an anybody and can be attacked by softies on walls, catwalks, cliffs etc from angles the tank can't even return fire at.

[Traak]

I don't see why planes would need 3PV, unless it was to more effectively attack relatively helpless targets with greater impunity.

3PV and camping are almost synonymous. No 3PV encourages movement. 3PV got abused by encouraging corner-slobbering.

[SKYeXile]

Unless everybody plays with a joystick and has a hat switch, you need 3rd person for peripheral vision in vehicles or its going to be a friendly TK feast as you back the fuck over them.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Traak

I don't see why planes would need 3PV, unless it was to more effectively attack relatively helpless targets with greater impunity.

3PV and camping are almost synonymous. No 3PV encourages movement. 3PV got abused by encouraging corner-slobbering.

Then I'm guessing you didn't fly very much in PS1. 3PV is flickered on and off during dogfights to get a better view of the planes circling around you. Most of the time it has very little bearing on how effective Air Cav is in attacking ground targets...

3PV and camping AS INFANTRY are almost synonymous. 3PV camping was very rare for vehicles because most crews kept on the move. Attempting to sit still long enough to camp in a vehicle usually got you killed due to the prevalence of Air Cav and the fact that you were a big hunk of metal making lots of noise (from the engines). The fluidity of the front lines, the sparse amount of concealment available, and the high frequency with which you showed up on enemy radar didn't lend itself very well to ambush tactics for vehicles. The vast majority of the time 3PV camping was a non-factor in vehicle combat.

[FastAndFree]

Erendil you described perfectly why some of us want 3rd person view from vehicles gone


If they removed 3rd person view from vehicles as well the forums would explode, but I would prefer it that way.

And if you want to know what's around your vehicle use freelook if in a cockpit/open vehicle or some external camera like what's on the Liberator

In fact that liberator style camera might be a great idea. For example you could turn it to your rear, and then glance at what you are about to reverse into between shots

[Hamma]

I am unsure if it was mentioned already, but they have already said 3rd person on "Certain Vehicles" (ie not all) and no 3rd person in Infantry mode.

[Xyntech]

The thing about removing third person from vehicles would be that all drivers/pilots would be at the same disadvantage. You may lose some of the ease of looking around yourself in a dogfight, but so would the other pilot. 3rd person vehicles is certainly an advantage, but it was never so grossly exploited as infantry 3rd person view.

With aircraft, 3rd person gave neither pilot the advantage if they both used it. With infantry, it gave the ambusher the advantage. It was just a cheep use of a mechanic that was only included because every other MMO had a third person view.

As long as 3rd person infantry view is gone, I'll be happy, whether vehicles can third person or not. I pretty much just don't care about vehicle third person view, one way or the other.

Wait. Now I'm bitching about 3rd person infantry view. I really must be a whiny n00b who can't adapt. Let's keep 3rd person infantry then. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broke, still don't fix it, just bite your lip and deal with it.

[Erendil]

3rdPV also introduces another tactical element available to drivers/pilots and as such IMO its removal would "dumb down" (I know I hate that overused phrase too but it's the only one that comes to mind) vehicle combat.

Since you don't have a targeting reticle while in 3rdPV (IIRC Higby stated they if they did give vehicles 3rdPV it wouldn't have a reticle), you can't effectively attack your opponent while in 3rdPV if they are moving at all so you run the chance of missing an opportunity to put a few rounds into them as they fly/drive by. Efficient and well-timed use of toggling between the 2 views can often mean the difference between exploding in a ball of fire and coming out on top with 10% armour left.

This is obviously more true for A2A dogfighting than ground vehicle combat but it can have an impact on GVC as well.

And as already stated by others above me, some people have difficulty driving ground vehicles in 1stPV, either due to lack of visibility or the jarring nature of your FoV bouncing around at high speed which over time could potentially cause dizziness/nausea/headaches.

A good example of this is gunning for BFR's. I can't gun for one because - aside from my horrendous distaste for the things - the screen jumps around so much that it'll give me a migraine if I look at the screen in 1stPV for more than a couple of minutes.

So, since 3rdPV for vehicles doesn't heavily favour one side, isn't very exploitable, adds a little more tactical complexity and variety to combat, can help alleviate the discomfort of driving in 1stPV for longs periods of time at high speeds, and quite frankly is a helluva lot of fun to use, I think it should be included (without a targeting reticle of course) for all ground vehicles.

[Zulthus]

IMHO flying would be better without 3PV, it makes you search for each other after a pass, and since you both can't toggle third person, it would be balanced. I just think that since you can't magically appear out of your cockpit to look around in real life, you shouldn't be able to in-game. I know game =/= reality, but it makes sense to remove it.

[SKYeXile]

yea that erendil, said, 3rd person in aircraft is used to track other acircraft, we could always not have it and the ground spammers would ahve an easier time farming infantry since its easier to evade other aircraft, sounds good to me, LET THE INFANTRY FARMING BEGIN!

But this is a demo i made of using 3rd person for tracking, also making use off afterburners and banking to stay on somebodys tail, no turreting here laides...only manly ramming....i mean love taps.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

IMHO flying would be better without 3PV, it makes you search for each other after a pass, and since you both can't toggle third person, it would be balanced. I just think that since you can't magically appear out of your cockpit to look around in real life, you shouldn't be able to in-game. I know game =/= reality, but it makes sense to remove it.

in real life you can look to the sides for unlimited distance,ontop and somewhat behindof you you because of the raised cockpit and clear veiw out the back, even with 3rd person veiw your veiw is more limited than what you have IRL.

:/

[Furret]

Rear view mirrors and fuzzy dice it is.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I am unsure if it was mentioned already, but they have already said 3rd person on "Certain Vehicles" (ie not all) and no 3rd person in Infantry mode.

Yeah I remember Higby saying that. I think he mentioned then that "air and certain vehicles" might be getting 3rdPV. The only other thing I remember hearing about 3rdPV was this quote from the Reddit discussion back in July:

Originally Posted by Higby

If we do allow 3rd person for vehicles it would be for maneuvering only, you wouldn't have a targeting reticle in 3rd person.

Have they said anything more besides this?

Originally Posted by Zulthus

IMHO flying would be better without 3PV, it makes you search for each other after a pass, and since you both can't toggle third person, it would be balanced. I just think that since you can't magically appear out of your cockpit to look around in real life, you shouldn't be able to in-game. I know game =/= reality, but it makes sense to remove it.

For me this is one of those gameplay > realism situations. For me, using 3rdPV is FUN. It's not unbalanced towards one side or the other, and doesn't give you so much of an advantage that you'd be crippling yourself if you didn't want to use it. I know there are a few pilots/drivers who almost never use 3rdPV in a vehicle in PS1.

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

in real life you can look to the sides for unlimited distance,ontop and somewhat behindof you you because of the raised cockpit and clear veiw out the back, even with 3rd person veiw your veiw is more limited than what you have IRL.

:/

Very good point. Combat vehicles nowadays also have numerous sensing instruments (thermal sights, long range radar, etc) that realistically should be given to vehicles but for gameplay purposes are not included. Even with 3rdPV vehicles in PS1/2 have a lot less sensory capabilities than they would in RL.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

in real life you can look to the sides for unlimited distance,ontop and somewhat behindof you you because of the raised cockpit and clear veiw out the back, even with 3rd person veiw your veiw is more limited than what you have IRL.

:/

Yeah. At the speeds and distances that aircraft travel with, the things that you can unrealistically see in third person view aren't very major. This is part of why I don't have a problem with third person view.

I wouldn't mind it's removal or inclusion. It does help track enemy air craft, but not as much as having a real life cockpit would, so the loss of 3rd person wouldn't be the biggest blow in the world.

It's probably more important to include it on ground vehicles though, for the aforementioned bouncing and headache/nausea issues.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Erendil

For me this is one of those gameplay > realism situations. For me, using 3rdPV is FUN.

It was unbalanced, and will remain so, because it is and advantage, in PS2, over infantry who do not have it, and should not have it.

I think rearview cameras would be better.