After being a Premium Member, I gotta say Paying is a big advantage, hidden P2W - Page 2

Tom Peters · 2013-06-17, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

"Pay to win over time" you mean by out-attritioning others in terms of logistics and being a bit further ahead in upgrades and sidegrades.

In a way yes, much like how infinite class switching and respawning nearby is a logistical advantage over time when engaging the same person in that life.

Which is why the class switching is akin to infinite certs in PS1 (where infnite certs in PS1 has a few less, somewhat arbitrary restrictions per life than PS2 has). Over time it grants a significant advantage to the person able to switch gear or have the gear they need always at their disposal sometime in their play session, where others do not.

It's not exactly "pay to win", as that would suggest a direct combat advantage. This is an indirect advantage.

This guy very often knows what he is talking about.

Brusi · 2013-06-17, 03:44 AM

It pisses me off that people make such a big deal about pay to win, yet don't realise that without a clear definition of what Pay2Win actually means, that every single game with micro-transactions is pay to win.

The problem isn't players paying for in-game benefits, it's about the people who don't pay feeling like they are not competitive, or at some sort of real disadvantage. I don't know that many non-paying players that feel this way, so PS2 seems to have quite a reasonable monetization system, so far.

Funny if their plan to lure more freeloaders on to the premium train backfires on them due to players like Dreamcast getting sooky once their premium is up! lol

Dreamcast · 2013-06-17, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by Brusi

It pisses me off that people make such a big deal about pay to win, yet don't realise that without a clear definition of what Pay2Win actually means, that every single game with micro-transactions is pay to win.

The problem isn't players paying for in-game benefits, it's about the people who don't pay feeling like they are not competitive, or at some sort of real disadvantage. I don't know that many non-paying players that feel this way, so PS2 seems to have quite a reasonable monetization system, so far.

Funny if their plan to lure more freeloaders on to the premium train backfires on them due to players like Dreamcast getting sooky once their premium is up! lol

"Sooky"...I dont even know what that means.

First of all Im not a freeloader, I invested $60 on this game

Im not saying Im gonna quit the game or anything, Im saying their is a Hidden Pay 2 Win on this game.

I noticed the advantage of paying, and is pretty huge.

Having extra resources to get way more vehicles/instakill mines is a pretty nice advantage.

Figment · 2013-06-17, 08:12 AM

It's a small logistical advantage, but situationally it can make the difference. Not running out of C4 or mines as easily may mean you can kill just a few more tanks for instance.

In that sense the BR40 in PS1 was worse too, since you would never run out even if you spammed everything like no tomorrow.

That is one of the reasons why I dislike both BR40 and the class system. There really is little you can do to exploit an enemy player's weakness in one field due to the lack of uniqueness in cert set up.

Some players complained about standard setups in ps1. But those players were less generic due to being limited in other fields. Even a pshield HA wielding mossiedropper had a weakness over time: deny air, good chance the only ground vehicle at his disposal was a weaponless ANT or a light vehicle. In PS2? No problem, heavy tank, ams, Gunship, buggy, etc. Everything is still there even if you lose your prefered unit(s) and put it on a timer. :/

Bags · 2013-06-17, 10:35 AM

i never ran out of grenades or medkits without paying a sub lol

Figment · 2013-06-17, 10:37 AM

Running out of C4 and tank mines is easier, they're a lot more expensive and frequently used.

maradine · 2013-06-17, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Timealude

frame rate is king in any FPS

Indeed. We should lock everyone to 20 fps so people who pay for high-end equipment don't have unfair advantages.

Dreamcast · 2013-06-17, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Indeed. We should lock everyone to 20 fps so people who pay for high-end equipment don't have unfair advantages.

Or just make everybody play on super low settings and ban anybody who can run 30 fps locked.

I know what you are trying to do....You are trying to compare the advantage of resources to having a badass computer...Is not the same.

Ill take a person with Low computer at low settings running fine vs a Person with a high computer at super high settings running fine.....Is much easier to play on low.

Originally Posted by Bags

i never ran out of grenades or medkits without paying a sub lol

Neither do I.

But I use to be full of grenades and Medkits...I had so much resources I both random consumables I had lol.

It does a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Figment

It's a small logistical advantage, but situationally it can make the difference. Not running out of C4 or mines as easily may mean you can kill just a few more tanks for instance.

/

Yeah a nice advantage.

maradine · 2013-06-17, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

I know what you are trying to do....You are trying to compare the advantage of resources to having a badass computer...Is not the same.

No. I'm demonstrating, via reductio ad absurdum, that twitch gaming is already heavily pay-to-win - people just choose to conveniently ignore the part that they've already paid for and carp about the part they haven't.

Hamma · 2013-06-17, 10:23 PM

We have been having this P2W debate ever since they announced PS2 would be F2P. Simply put, it isn't. Anything you can acquire via currency you can aquire in game.

OCNSethy · 2013-06-17, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

We have been having this P2W debate ever since they announced PS2 would be F2P. Simply put, it isn't. Anything you can acquire via currency you can aquire in game.

Albeit with a labourious grinding effort. But agreed, SC & Certs perform the same function.

Im just too lazy to grind though, Id rather just buy stuff

Sunrock · 2013-06-17, 10:30 PM

All F2P games are P2W games in one way or an other. It's the entire business model.

Most fair game you get from box price + monthly fee. But every one QQ when they are forced to play for a game now a days... damn fucking crybabies.

Sunrock · 2013-06-17, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

We have been having this P2W debate ever since they announced PS2 would be F2P. Simply put, it isn't. Anything you can acquire via currency you can aquire in game.

It's just allot faster and easier when you pay... So that makes it P2W on one level.

Hamma · 2013-06-17, 10:38 PM

You are paying for convenience, you are not paying to win nor can you obtain weapons that cannot be obtained via other means. Players who choose not to pay can obtain the same things, plus there's videos out there of people on zero cert base characters owning.

maradine · 2013-06-17, 10:45 PM

Amazing what you can do with a good framerate and a low ping.

OK, OK, I'm done, I'm done.

PURCHASABLE AIR CARRIERS AND ORBITAL STRIKES PLZ