Balance passes and our cert points - Page 2

james · 2013-01-15, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by LONGFELLA KOJ

Well, I hate for this to become an "I'm looking for a refund" thread. Because I'm not. I too believe in the buyer beware motto. So, much like all of you, I do my research on a product before I buy it. And, by purchasing it I understand that it will remain in a state of flux as far as balance.

It's the group of people who cannot play as much as they would like. So they choose to invest the time they play (cert points) into 1 particular play style. Then along comes a patch and poof! your last 2 weeks of playtime has been pissed into irrelevance. Your 1000+ cert points you just invested into your sunderer just got bitchslapped by the C4 buff and now you have a timer every 20 minutes. This is a hypothetical example of course.

How about a token like the server swap idea from Higby. You buy it with Station Cash and it allows you to reclaim a portion of your cert points back. Like a recert in old PS1.

Just tossing it out there.

And none of this is coming from the fact I'm on the fence about that 1000+ nanoweave investment

Based on the business model, i doubt your see anything like that. Perhaps a payed cert reset may come out sometime. Sadly since SOE decided to bring a open beta to market, its going to be a problem for the next year or so

Figment · 2013-01-15, 02:29 PM

One acquires a weapon on the basis that it is useful. If you get something because it is overpowered, or even very powerful, you should still realise you signed an agreement that allows SOE to alter stuff.

When it comes to world of tanks, they only reimburse for replacement and tier changes by giving extra tankslots and/or free tanks. A purchase however, is a purchase.

Baneblade · 2013-01-15, 02:41 PM

As long as you can never reach a hard cap on cert points, there is no need for refunding.

Sturmhardt · 2013-01-15, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

This falls under "Caveat emptor". You choose to buy it, its your. The end. This is how it works in reality.

Yup... this discussion is futile. I have not seen any unfair nerfing in PS2 yet.

Sleepy · 2013-01-15, 02:51 PM

Though it's not fun for the buyer when a particular purchase is either:

1) Directly nerfed in a post-purchase patch
2) Rendered obsolete by new items and shifting Metagame

IMO the balance and/or progression of the game calls for such things, regardless if it's a F2P title or not. PS1 had this as well, and the results were generally acceptable as feedback was presented (though agonizingly slow at times, like most games). The Devs assemble a game and let it loose, and even though PS2 needed more months of Beta, inevitably various weapons would need further attention anyways.

Think of it as a Subscription in a sense - buying a new rifle every few months for $7 (or less with SC deals) is still cheaper than $15/month, every month. Sure, there are other things to spend SC on, but you aren't compelled to do so.

I personally wish the TTK would be raised to make room for more distinct weapon variation - SOE should have tried this in Beta, even if for just a month. Hopefully they'll try it in the future; which would mean most weapons would have a different feel entirely, as an example of a potential game improvement that would leave some purchases feeling underwhelming.

EVILPIG · 2013-01-15, 02:57 PM

One man's "nerf", is another man's "balance".

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-15, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rockit

They should just give everyone a free re-spec every so often. Would that suffice?

Can't possibly do that.

PS1 did that. You can't do anything from PS1, no matter how awesome it was.

You had a timer, but you could forget anything and learn somehting else of the same value. Pretty sure after major patches you got a "forget all" (I know you got a forget all sometimes, I'm just not sure when)

WoW does it. You have to pay, but you can do it.

But this game is not WoW or PS1.

So can you re-spec in BF or CoD?

Palerion · 2013-01-15, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

This falls under "Caveat emptor". You choose to buy it, its your. The end. This is how it works in reality.

Things don't get nerfed in real life...

james · 2013-01-15, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Can't possibly do that.

PS1 did that. You can't do anything from PS1, no matter how awesome it was.

You had a timer, but you could forget anything and learn somehting else of the same value. Pretty sure after major patches you got a "forget all" (I know you got a forget all sometimes, I'm just not sure when)

WoW does it. You have to pay, but you can do it.

But this game is not WoW or PS1.

So can you re-spec in BF or CoD?

You don't need to for both BF3 and COD, you can have everything in around 50-100 hrs, besides camo's. I would expect to see a cert point reset thats buy able at some point.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-15, 03:07 PM

The thing is I dont think you ever need to respec when there is a never ending flow of certs. Just play the game some more and spend the certs that you accumulate.

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-15, 03:10 PM

Are dumping points into something that you have realized is awesome?
Are you dumoing points into something that most people think is awesome?

In either case you should know what might be coming.

MrBloodworth · 2013-01-15, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Palerion

Things don't get nerfed in real life...

Bullshit.

NewSith · 2013-01-15, 03:13 PM

The game keeps track of all the earnt and spent certpoints (including those spent on weapons...)

My best guess there will be a cert reset sometime, especially since this game is still really REALLY raw.

Tox · 2013-01-15, 03:28 PM

I don't see why there is any need to get refunded in any way. Maybe it would be appropriate to reset some certs and gain back some of the cert points. However, at the end of the day if you bought that cert because of some precocieved value and then the value is changed by a balancing pass you still have the cert and full use of it so whats the problem?

Flavor of the month/week/patch certs are just that, and offering a refund just reinforces that tactically migratory playstyle. Which, complicates overall game balance.

NewSith · 2013-01-15, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tox

if you bought that cert because of some precocieved value and then the value is changed by a balancing pass you still have the cert and full use of it so whats the problem?

The stick has two ends usually. I think I annoyed the crap out of everyone with my concerns, but I'll say again:

Example:
Liberator body gets a nerf, because of how many Dalton and Zephyr Liberators there are. But that renders Shredder Liberator worthless and while it was perfectly balanced before the pass, it got totally UP after it.

In PS1 every vehicle had a preset number of weapons, thus all vehicles had one niche defined for them as their birthright. In PS2 Skyguard Lightning is not a Cannon Lightning, the two take completely different niches, while still being the same vehicle.