Orbital Strike/Commander customizations coming, CR (certs) needs to be reworked - Page 2

Dougnifico · 2013-02-23, 07:33 PM

I'm sure SOE can find a way to do it, but orbital strikes need to be rare. None of the orbital spam from PS1.

Rothnang · 2013-02-23, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Carbon Copied

I like the solution he has presented as well - in response to Rothnang why not revamp how the squads are managed; so for example if someone is the platoon leader he can dictate via interface if the accruing CR points go to another individual in that squad but by default they're set to squad leader - this allows others to lead but outfit rotations to happen as well?

They still get way fewer command points than if they just all ran a public squad. Making people grind leadership will just lead to people making squads purely because they want to sit in slot 1, not because they actually want to lead or organize.

Cause and Effect. If you're worried that way too many people are going to spend certs on this ability then what makes you think they won't game any other system to get the ability as well? It's completely absurd to think people aren't going to want the ability anymore just because you make it a little harder to get.

The only way you can restrict something in an MMO in a good way that doesn't harm the game by setting bars that are intentionally to high for most of your players is to make it one of many equally attractive but mutually exclusive choices.

Specialization options would be a great addition to this game anyways, so command abilities could also be built into there.

Stanis · 2013-02-23, 08:01 PM

I like the aspect of squad leader certifications that require you to actively be SL or PL to talk in the /leader channel and
However, as an outfit leader sometimes not actually leading outfit platoons or squads I would still like to be aware of the /leader chat ... so let me join the channel without a +voice.

This ties into any truly powerful ability.
It doesnt matter how high you set the bar to acquire. How many hoops that you must jump through.
Wehther it takes the average player that wants it 1hr, 1day or 1 year of gametime - if its worth getting, they will.
The Nth year problem is everyone and their dog has it.

The only solution here is that charging the ability up - requires you once again to actively be a Leader.
Not timer base.

Bring back Auraxium for Capture and Defence rewards. And reward completed missions.
Make these specific to SL and PL.
They use auraxium to detonate the ability and have to wait 3hrs since the lat once before firing it again - or 15mins since taking on a SL/PL role so you cant just jump SL positions to get a stock of them.

You can know reward well executed actions with "command currency" that can be used for a range of useful command abilities - not just
For example. Hot drop/Instant action could cost the commander rather than this cheesy redeploy we have now.

SturmovikDrakon · 2013-02-23, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stanis

I like the aspect of squad leader certifications that require you to actively be SL or PL to talk in the /leader channel and
However, as an outfit leader sometimes not actually leading outfit platoons or squads I would still like to be aware of the /leader chat ... so let me join the channel without a +voice.

I agree, outfit leaders should be able to communicate in the chat.

It doesnt matter how high you set the bar to acquire. How many hoops that you must jump through.
Wehther it takes the average player that wants it 1hr, 1day or 1 year of gametime - if its worth getting, they will.
The Nth year problem is everyone and their dog has it.

Sadly you can say this about anything, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to restrict it though.

Bring back Auraxium for Capture and Defence rewards. And reward completed missions.
Make these specific to SL and PL.
They use auraxium to detonate the ability and have to wait 3hrs since the lat once before firing it again - or 15mins since taking on a SL/PL role so you cant just jump SL positions to get a stock of them.

You can know reward well executed actions with "command currency" that can be used for a range of useful command abilities - not just
For example. Hot drop/Instant action could cost the commander rather than this cheesy redeploy we have now.

These are great ideas and have been proposed several times on Reddit as well, and would work great if they plan on adding any more future abilities for Commanders.

The resource can be built up as squads complete their objectives/missions. These resourcse can then be used by the platoon commander, but are immediately depleted so you can't spam those abilities.

Mietz · 2013-02-23, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Well, that problem is also solved by simply making the "resource" used to fire these things squad XP.

Thats simply not in the SOE philosophy.

I will repeat what higby said for how OS will work:

Firing it will be consumable, like a grenade. You’ll need to use resources each time you launch one. The tool will be just like any other weapon in the store, with sidegrades for different firing patterns and “types”, AV, AI, etc.

The plan is to make it more like a small scale artillery / mortar strike rather than a huge nuke.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=52456

Its not going to use squad XP, it will be a consumable, it will be available to everyone and everyone will be able to use it.

The bolded part. Store. Just like every other weapon.
The end.

/thread

Aveox · 2013-02-23, 09:29 PM

As people have already mentioned: PS1 taught us that any artificial hurdle you create in the form of minimum BR needed, number of base captures as squad leader etc. doesnt matter as they will farm it. It won't make better leaders and just makes the life of those that are willing to lead difficult. Command should be a choice, not a perk. So call it a wild idea, but how about making command an actual class instead of a bunch of certs?

I can see a commander as a support character like an engineer or medic, carrying a carbine, pistol and CUD. So he's on a similar level combat-wise, but his main weapon is information and tactical support. Thinking of both PS1 and PS2:

- Access to /leader without having to be squad leader.

- Counting as 2 people when on a cap point, possibly even counting as more influence at higher cert levels.

- Able to see the cap point status of adjacent hexes on the map, possibly all major facility cap points on the continent at higher cert levels.

- Orbital strike: This should not be on a cooldown timer, but on a charge up timer. You can fire the OS at any time, but it will only be as powerful as you charge it. So 1% = flashlight from the sky, 100% (several hours charge time) = PS1-like inferno. Note that you can only charge it by actually playing the commander class. So if you swap classes in between it stops charging. Putting certs into the OS should reduce it's charge time, but it should remain lengthy no matter what.

- EMP burst: Like the OS on a charge up timer and able to temporarily disrupt missile guidance systems and detonate any mines and C4 in the area. The more you charge it, the larger the radius of the effect. At higher cert levels it could possibly knock out a generator for 10 seconds without blowing it up if you stand close to it, allowing for tactical disabling of shields and SCU.

- IFF burst: Spots enemies in a certain radius and puts IFF markers on their heads. Size of the radius is determined by how much you charge it.

I'm sure you guys can think of more :-)

To me a commander class seems a much cleaner solution then anything based on resources or time investment. It becomes much easier to individually balance it and it also allows people that want to lead to do so from the get go, which hopefully creates leaders that are willing to do what the name implies.

Rothnang · 2013-02-24, 01:08 AM

Kind of annoyed with all these people who say "I don't want every Tom Dick and Harry to have _____". What is this arbitrary standard that makes someone worthy to have it?

No matter what system you put into place, anyone can game the system to get it, so the only way that would limit availability is if the way to get it would take so long that most people can't reach it in any reasonable amount of time.

Carbon Copied · 2013-02-24, 07:19 AM

Arbitrary standard? Maybe it's looking for some form/branch of end game goal/specialization (whatever you want to phrase it as) I guess - yeah sure you can grind your way there with any system used; I'm not saying that's not the case.

Plissket · 2013-02-24, 08:37 AM

If the orbital strike is done in a cinematic style with commanders voting to deploy it and a star wars 1 style counter down to it being used increasing the tension and upping the "drama" in a battle then it could be good fun.

If its just a pillar of light and then the targets vehicle retimer is set to 10 minutes then its boring, adds nothing to the feel of the game, and is negative for gameplay.

Somehow I'm guessing its going to be the latter here, I gave up many sessions of PS1 after being OS'd several times in a row (just once was too many with the way that weapon was designed).

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-24, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by TestyVenom

3) This has nothing to do with usefulness. This was suggested to add some form of leadership progression using what is currently in the game. It may be a good idea to require 100% Squad Leader certification completion before being able to progress through a Command Rank system.

Forcing people to cert useless stuff as prerequisites for anything is bad game design - competent developers stopped doing this 10 years ago.

Stop trying to ruin the game.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-24, 08:50 AM

If you want to kep it from being over power and game destroying the method is simple.

-modest damage
-fairly high resource cost

The key is just to make sure its not over powered relative to resource cost.

For instance if its basically a a long distance double c4 that costs 500 resource points. thats not something you could spam. It is useful. Its not over powered.

SturmovikDrakon · 2013-02-24, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Kind of annoyed with all these people who say "I don't want every Tom Dick and Harry to have _____". What is this arbitrary standard that makes someone worthy to have it?

No matter what system you put into place, anyone can game the system to get it, so the only way that would limit availability is if the way to get it would take so long that most people can't reach it in any reasonable amount of time.

And why SHOULD they be able to get it without working for it?

This is a persistent game, everyone will get everything eventually, doesn't mean there shouldn't be a system of restrictions. I'm mostly a grunt and have no interest to lead, I still don't agree that every Joe Public should be able to cert into something he hasn't even done just because he has certs left over.

Both systems are flawed, but certs even more so

Baneblade · 2013-02-24, 09:55 AM

The OS should cost 10k certs to unlock.

That is the only gate needed. 99.9875% of players will never have the patience to see that through.

Blynd · 2013-02-24, 10:36 AM

What about tweekin g the OS so instead of being a killer its a hinderance tool or kills medic and engineer tools in its aoe and thus makes a defense or attack more interesting and those effected are effected until they die or a set time limit say 2 minutes this giving defenders a chance to push out and get a base secured. But it would also work for the attackers being able to stop turrets from being used for a Period of time and gens unabl to be repaired so allowing them to push in. Would make the crwn less of a meat grider as a well placed OS would make it vulnerable. There would also have to be a lasting effect that stops another OS of the same empire being used soon after to stop spamming

psijaka · 2013-02-25, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I don't think this is a good idea. Access to squad leader abilities shouldn't be based on how often you lead a squad, because that just leads to people trying to whore squad leads at any opportunity.

What if you have an outfit that likes to run tight squads with lots of qualified people who take turns leading? You're going to have a really hard time getting them leveled to have the proficiency. Why are people who are highly organized less deserving of leadership perks than people who just run public squads all night?

Squad abilities should be restricted by how many people you are leading at the time, that way you don't have the issue of people making a mass of 2 person squads just so they can have more leaders on the field, and you actually make getting a powerful ability contingent on what your squad is doing.

Hey, maybe Squad powers could be given out similarly to how CoD does it, except instead of basing the points on the individual player it's based on the whole squad. Your orbital strike tool just counts up the (unmodified) XP earned by your squad and grants you access to the strikes accordingly. Let's say 30000 XP buys an orbital strike, then if you lead a squad of 3 or 4 people and you're just doing a bit of back capping you won't get orbital strikes very often because you're just not in a huge battle that warrants a battle station going overhead, but if you lead a squad of 12 or a whole platoon in the middle of a huge battle with XP rolling in like crazy you'll get a strike pretty fast.

^ this is the best idea by far, but, judging by what Higby has said, OS isn't going to work that way.

I'm worried about Orbital Strike; I've not played PS1, but vets say it is a pretty powerful tool. Even the "hinted at" reduced version is going to get spammed like mad and will totally ruin the few decent battles that do occur; goodness knows, there are enough ways to meet sudden death in this game as it is eg: -cough- rocketpods.

I can't think of a lower skill way of killing a mass of people; point and click on the map and instant death, with no chance whatsoever for those on the receiving end. LAME.