New policy on refunds needed - Page 2

typhaon · 2013-07-17, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

If they added a line saying *we hold the right to take every penny you have and claim all future income you ever have* would that be legal though? In what other industry can people change something you paid real money for so its worse than when you bought it and deny you a refund?

Hell this even encourages horrific business practises, if you wanted to farm players you could make certain gear really OP, then when everybody has bought it nerf it so its worthless and boost something else to be OP, when everybody has bought that nerf it to worthlessness, rinse and repeat. The law needs to catch up with gaming really, its letting these companies get away with robbery basically.

Hell think about it how many games have you played where something is OP then nerfed to be useless only to have something else end up OP as hell... they could already be using this plan to farm players for money while the law doesn't bother to stop them.

I'm pretty sure that's what SOE has been doing (perhaps unintentionally) for the past 6 months... have you not been paying attention?

Timealude · 2013-07-17, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by typhaon

I'm pretty sure that's what SOE has been doing (perhaps unintentionally) for the past 6 months... have you not been paying attention?

think they have been more or less balancing things, they cant help it if they put something into the game and we the players find a way to abuse it.

War Barney · 2013-07-17, 11:22 AM

This is the problem with games is a new market so the legal side of it is well behind everything else. Steam for example can ban your account without telling you why making you unable to play any of the games you bought which could be worth 100s depending on how many you had (perhaps even 1000s if you had the account for a while). In no other industry would that be legal but gamers seem very shy about fighting for their rights so this kind of stuff is allowed.

Assist · 2013-07-17, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

This is the problem with games is a new market so the legal side of it is well behind everything else. Steam for example can ban your account without telling you why making you unable to play any of the games you bought which could be worth 100s depending on how many you had (perhaps even 1000s if you had the account for a while). In no other industry would that be legal but gamers seem very shy about fighting for their rights so this kind of stuff is allowed.

Been using steam since 2003, never have had any issues with bans or suspensions. Just don't be an asshat and problem is solved.

Not sure what this has to do with Planetside2 though. C4 being changed isn't related to real money in any form. If you don't like the new version of it, tough shit, move on. If it's that bad for you to farm the certs that you "lost", then it sounds like you're not having fun with the game and should move on to something else.

Also if you want to bring up a debate about the balancing of a weapon/item in PS2, I suggest you post the changes to the item. I have no idea what the C4 change is, all I see in this post is you whining that you 'have' to play a game.

Canaris · 2013-07-17, 12:07 PM

well since the main issue has been dealt with the proper PSU way, anyone got a link to these C4 changes?

Qwan · 2013-07-17, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

Well I just heard they are changing C4 to be near worthless and apparently I've got no chance of a refund on those 700 certs wasted (As why the hell would I use C4 again when its a utter crap version of tank mines).

This got me thinking.. why is it legal for them to change something after you buy it and refuse you a refund? for certs you could say its cos its not real money you spent (though its still scummy) but for things you bought for SC you should always be allowed to request a refund upon a balance change.

Think of it like this, you don't buy a car, then a week later they call it in saying its to comfortable so they are going to make it worse and slow it down as well and refuse to let you return it. If you provide a service or product it should remain the same as when you bought it (apart from if you damage it or wear) or if it is forced into being changed you should be allowed a refund. It just seems refusing a refund is not just immoral its illegal as well.

Welcome to the world of free to play, now bend over and exhale please

Originally Posted by Baneblade

You 'rent' PlanetSide 2... you don't own it.

With the Free to play model do your really rent or own anything ?

PredatorFour · 2013-07-17, 12:17 PM

Soe missed out on a great opportunity to rake in cash here, more so than the controversial buying of implants that's coming.

They say you can unlock all certs and that is why there is no cert resets.... ok. What they don't realize is (and probably because they don't play the game) is that it is a massive cert grind and people get bored and don't want to play another 10 days of game time to get where they want to be. If they would of charged a station cash fee for a cert reset, probably most of the customer base would of bought into that. I have spent little on this game but i would of bought one. I know loads of people that all would of bought a cert reset.

Like i said soe missed a MASSIVE opportunity to get sales through this in their shortsightedness.

Qwan · 2013-07-17, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Soe missed out on a great opportunity to rake in cash here, more so than the controversial buying of implants that's coming.

They say you can unlock all certs and that is why there is no cert resets.... ok. What they don't realize is (and probably because they don't play the game) is that it is a massive cert grind and people get bored and don't want to play another 10 days of game time to get where they want to be. If they would of charged a station cash fee for a cert reset, probably most of the customer base would of bought into that. I have spent little on this game but i would of bought one. I know loads of people that all would of bought a cert reset.

Like i said soe missed a MASSIVE opportunity to get sales through this in their shortsightedness.

Please dont give SOE any more idea's, there design and game play of PS2 initially was bad enough. There just now getting thing in order please refrane from adding to the termoil. Just let them get the mess fixed that they call PS2.

Roderick · 2013-07-17, 12:53 PM

The way I see it, if you feel that you were mislead by SOE due to changes made to virtual items paid with real money, take it up with your local Better Business Bureau or similar agency of your state or locality. A good portions of the responses I read on various forums cite the EULA, etc, but that does not define your rights regarding the sales law of your state or locality.

If you seriously want a refund, go fight for it. The worst case scenario is that you lose and get no refund. At least you will have made an attempt to get your money back and in the process will learn something about consumer buyer rights for any future virtual purchases you make going forward.

Qwan · 2013-07-17, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Roderick

The way I see it, if you feel that you were mislead by SOE due to changes made to virtual items paid with real money, take it up with your local Better Business Bureau or similar agency of your state or locality. A good portions of the responses I read on various forums cite the EULA, etc, but that does not define your rights regarding the sales law of your state or locality.

If you seriously want a refund, go fight for it. The worst case scenario is that you lose and get no refund. At least you will have made an attempt to get your money back and in the process will learn something about consumer buyer rights for any future virtual purchases you make going forward.

Good point Roderick, but unfortinatly the EULA for SOE is pretty solid, I also found a little somthing online breaking the legal status of virtual items.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverhe...virtual-goods/

I mean the most we can do is a in game sit in, or online boycot of the SOE product. Or you can even start a purchasing strike, but with this free to play concept many of the current players dont even invest in the game. To keep it real though I know a lot of people who create accounts check it out say they dont like it. So honestly if you spent station cash for a item and they decide to nerf it, your pretty much *&%$

But there is a bright side to it......

Emperor Newt · 2013-07-18, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

700 certs. That's like a day.

Judging from my overall score/min that's about 8.5 hours of solid playtime for me. And I already have used some boosts, a short membership and double xp weekends. I really don't want to judge on how much "Joe Average" has to play to get 700 certs.
But maybe I am just playing the game too much how it is intended to be played and should farm more... It's odd when game mechanics reward you more for faming people with a grenade launcher then getting to the objective. Something is just wrong there.

But to be on topic, I still hope for cert and sc refund tokens. Yes, even sc refund. Make them cost 1000 sc if you wish. I would pay that becasue it would still be a "win" situation for me.
Nothing is lost as long as it costs money. It's a win-win situation for both sides. Who cares if people can redo some purchases they regret as long as they pay money for it? You could even make it a one purchase per year thing if people still feel offended for what ever reason. (Of course cert resets tokens should be purchasable with certs too)

Baneblade · 2013-07-19, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Qwan

With the Free to play model do your really rent or own anything ?

It doesn't matter what the actual model is. The concept is the same.

Shogun · 2013-07-19, 07:34 AM

ps2 stands for players scammed (x2)

ChipMHazard · 2013-07-19, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

ps2 stands for players scammed (x2)

Uh-huh. Very constructive that...

Closing this one down since there's no C4 nerf coming at this point in time and there are other threads for discussing the need for refund tokens. Discussing the need for legal changes in how video games, virtual items etc. are categorized (Thus which rights one would have) is not a discussion that belongs in the PS2 part of the forum but the general forums.